Bears Beyond The Gate
A Bristol Bears podcast made by fans for fans. Each week your hosts Pete, Lee and Miles will take a light-hearted look at developments from Ashton Gate and beyond.
Bears Beyond The Gate
Ep 235 - Scrappy defeat at the StoneX, more mixed zone interviews and a Storm(ers) is brewing
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this week's episode we review yet another defeat at the StoneX but discuss whether it was quite as bad as the 30-7 score suggested.
Overall, we weren't great but there were some positive 'moments' and it was good to see new players stand up and be counted.
Ultimately though, our ill discipline and lack of red zone efficiency let us down. The wait goes on (sigh)!
However, Pete did manage to grab a word with Jimmy, Bats, Gabs, Harry Wells and the Mighty Bosh straight after the final whistle to get their (refreshingly honest) thoughts and, equally as importantly, try to discover who might get in Business Class on the flight to Cape Town and who might be in the overhead lockers.
We also discuss the pitch thing and Pete gives an upbeat verdict on the match day experience although that was potentially influenced by the fact that he managed to blag himself a stack of free donuts at half time.
All this and more. Up the Bears!
Hi, my name is Pedro Riotto and you are listening to Bears on the Gate. You're listening to Bears Beyond the Gate, a Bristol Bears podcast made by fans for fans, with three friends who love the club, the game and all things bears. This week we will review yet another defeat at the Stone X. After the first two excellent wins, our prediction peckers were up. But when a fairly heavily rotated team was announced, I'm not sure fans were quite as confident. We ultimately suffered a 30 points to seven defeat, but was it that bad? We identify some of the issues and of course discussed the positives, including individual player performances. We now have a random Champions Cup game in Cape Town before returning to Ashton Gate for back-to-back prem games at the end of October. Will this affect team selection or will Pat go heavy loaded? I'm Pete and I'm joined by Lee and Miles for a cheeky beer and a bit of rugby banter at the Bristol Beer Factory Tatroo. Well boys, before we uh get on to the chat, shall we just say what beers we're drinking? Uh just because every now and again we forget um what it is. And Miles is looking very nice.
SPEAKER_09I do know I do remember to the sky. Yes. Lovely. I've written it down for you.
SPEAKER_06But yeah, so uh Miles and Lee have got to the sky, and I thought if in honour of the Saracen's pitch, I would have Time to Burn. Good run. Which I've got to say is actually a nice little tipple. Yeah, absolutely. But you can only wear it wearing black tights. It's always a nice tipple, sure. It is always a nice tipple here, isn't it? So um yeah, so anyway, we um before we start, actually, we're gonna go straight to a goat. We we don't normally do goats at the beginning, but this is not a goat that we've got. This is a goat against us. What? It's a listener goat.
SPEAKER_05And there's only one.
SPEAKER_06Well, I mean, I'm sure it's been loads. This is the first one anyone's ever told us. So this came, was this was on uh Bristol Rugby Net forum, and uh generally uh in the midst of some very positive comments about last week's pod, um, because of the mix zone stuff and the and the wins, which were very nice by the way, thanks everyone. But um TBR, who uh is his handle, did finish his little bit by saying, Finally, a listener's goat, just a bugbear of mine, nothing too serious. Um, the pod's continuous misuse of the word literally. Miles, the worst worst culprit last week, but it's not just him, and to be fair, it isn't just my yeah, we're all we're all guilty. Yeah. So um he said literally, it was laid on a plate. He literally put his head on the line, he literally put his head in the spokes. I know I'm an old fuddy duddy, and famous authors have been misusing the word literally for over a hundred years to add emphasis or hyperbole, but it makes the veins in my temple twitches all. I much prefer your continuous and correct use of elude. We do love an elude.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but we get slated for the week.
SPEAKER_06We do get slated for a lot of people. We get slated for a lude, but at least we're using it correctly. Um so he says though, seriously, fellas, hang on. Uh, another really good podcast, and uh please keep literally making me sorry, seriously though, fellas, another really good podcast, please keep literally making me split my sides with laughter. So to be fair to him, he's uh he's um he's kind of finished with a positive, hasn't he? You've got something to say, Lee though.
SPEAKER_05Well let's just say we literally adolopise for using the word literally and that's it. We we don't do it anymore.
SPEAKER_06We will attempt we will attempt to I almost thought about bringing the um the bell back.
SPEAKER_05You know the little bell we had, but we make too many mistakes, that thing will be just ting tinking all day long.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so I think we'll have starting to have a goat against the the the bell, won't they? Fair enough. Well, look, um it's uh so a couple of things. So Lee, we ought to say to the listeners that you've just just come back. Lee has returned from a weekend in Milan and I think stepped into just returned from a weekend in Milan and had one minute in his flat and has come over here. So so you have been a little bit off comms, saw the score basically, and and that was it. Yeah, um, and obviously, Miles, you watched it on television. Yeah, absolutely, with the Duchess yesterday, and I made the trip. Uh I made the trip to Saracen's courtesy of uh good friend of the pod, Mr. Damien Derrick of Points West fame who who gave me a lift.
SPEAKER_04That's royalty.
SPEAKER_06It was royalty. Absolutely. So we've all kind of come in from this from different angles. So I thought, what would be best? What would be a good idea to bring Lee up to speed uh get some help for some friends of ours? And of course, friends of ours now, based on that mix zone last week, is is some of the players. So uh one of the reasons I went up to Saracen's because I th I went I was on a bit of a roll. I thought maybe I could try and get a few more player interviews after the game, like a bit like we did last week, because it went down really well. And lo and behold, I did. So what I thought we'd do now is we've got 10 minutes worth of player interviews. I think I got to select five again. Um went back to a couple that we spoke to last week, and if we play that now and listen to what they said, we can have a clue what Lee'll have a clue. So here we go. Here we go. Oh gosh, right. It's a week later uh after the great game against Northampton, and uh I'm here at the Stone X with uh with new pod legend Jimmy Williams. Jimmy, that was a tough, tough game today. What's your thoughts on it?
SPEAKER_08Uh the complete opposite, probably to what I said this time last week. You've caught me fresh off the bat here. So probably a little bit emotional. Uh I thought we were awful. I thought discipline was poor. If you want to get technical, like our shape wasn't wasn't where it should have been. Um I mean, just were feeding Saris like going in at halftime where it was 11-nil, we haven't actually done anything, and it's only 11-0. Like, and we come out and score straight away, and then again it was just sort of just fell back into that poor discipline, turnovers, and could we just couldn't get back in like the momentum back.
SPEAKER_06I mean, I I've got to be honest, after 30 minutes, I I not I wasn't sure you were gonna score at all as well. It just had that feel that you just couldn't get a foothold into the game, but lost an aerial battle, yeah. You had a few new combinations and stuff like that. Yeah, I mean that must make a bit of a difference. You know, you can't just hit the round ground running straight away.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah, maybe that does the I mean from my point of view, like if you get picked to play, then there's no excuse for it.
SPEAKER_06Is uh I mean you were you were I mean there were you were I mean you were trying hard. There was you know you made quite a few little line breaks and then little offloads when the ball was on the ground and stuff, and uh on the plus side, yeah, you did have a kick though, didn't you? Had a kick.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, it was 100% this week. 100% from how many one from one? Yeah, kicking actually kicks every day this week after last week, so that's I think at least I'll take that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I mean 11 11-7. I actually thought, you know, suddenly get back in it, because they I mean they made quite a few mistakes as well, didn't they?
SPEAKER_08It was uh really wasn't the best game to watch. Um well I see they just won the aerial bat and we just we just couldn't quite like when we strung a few phases together, it was you know, we were on, won't we? But that was yeah, I need to watch a bat. I went to the battery. Yeah, of course you do. Well, at the moment, dust yourself off. You've got a nice trip to Cape Town to come, haven't you? So make sure you enjoy that. Feed up, mate. Feet up in business class, you know. Oh, is that oh yeah, so anyway, here's a question then. So who does who does get in business class all the way up there? Probably the boys that are leading starting it. Well, yeah, probably after today. If you play today, you might be in the economy, alright? Yeah, or in the or in the hold, yeah. Putting it out. Anyway, mate, look, thanks very much for speaking. No worries, no worries. Have a good week. There's always another game, isn't there? There's another game. We'll get X, though, yeah. Cheers. Thank you.
SPEAKER_06I'm here with Centurion Joe Batley. Joe, it was uh a big moment for you today. Um, you ran out onto the pitch with loads of Saracen fans clapping you, followed then by Max Malins, who took all the glory. But joking aside, I mean it was a it's a tough place to come, it was a tough game today. What are your thoughts on it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, very special day for me. I mean, obviously I would have loved to win. I'd have loved today to have gone slightly different, but um today wasn't always about the results today, it was about the journey to get here. Um, it's been a lot of years, a lot of hard work, a lot of uh a lot of setbacks, so I'm just I'm over the moon to get it. Unfortunately, today um we we were probably our worst enemy in terms of the way that we played the game. Like every time we were about to break them, we we dropped the ball or we fumbled, and then when we got any ascendancy in the pitch, we then messed up our either our line out or our scrum or uh a silly penalty, and then the uh the ref then turned turned on us at the end there. And look, there was a there's a lot of effort, probably not channelled in in the way that we want to play the game. Uh we were nowhere near as consistent or as clinical as we have been the last two weeks, and and Saracen's credit to them, they're they're they're a proper good outfit, especially at home. And year on year they've shown that if if we don't if we don't pull the trigger, if we're not clinical, they they will come back and they will hurt us.
SPEAKER_06I was gonna say, I mean, don't don't be too hard on yourself. I mean they're a good side as well, and you know, they they they defended hard. I mean they box-kicked about a million kicks in the first half. I mean, it was uh it was a pretty pretty direct strategy, and uh yeah, I mean, you know, 11-7 though, I just think you know there was a chance, you know. We came back four points in it, and then yeah, it went away. But more importantly, there was some nice uh stuff in the week with you getting your uh your hundredth cap from your your wife and your kids, and uh that was nice, wasn't it? It's uh did you shed a tear then in front of the lads or do you hold it back?
SPEAKER_02No, I I blubbered straight away. I thought I was gonna be strong, and I felt I felt pretty good going into it. Um and then as soon as the videos came up, uh I started crying, and then um I was unaware that she was gonna turn up at work, so when she walked through the door with my shirt, I um I went again. So yeah, it was a really special moment for not only not only for myself, for Anna, my partner, and my two kids um who absolutely loved it. And yeah, it'd be uh it'd be a memory that we look back on fondly regardless. And it's it's always good to see one of the hardest men in the club has got an emotional side as well.
SPEAKER_06So uh doing quite as well, did he?
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah, he was he was telling he was good stuff, and uh well, you've got a little trip to Cape Town to cut.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think obviously like we've got the the break of the prem now, so uh a very small break where we go to Safco and and go head to head with the Stormers who have got uh a really great pack, so I'm looking forward to that challenge. Uh and then we're back to it with uh extra and Nesta home, which all be uh should be amazing to uh to come back into the Prem. Uh be real nitty-gritty, which uh again, like the Stormers game was set us up perfectly for is it is it is it true that the Hundred Club they get business class stopped by? Well I'm gonna start that route and hopefully it's actually yeah we're gonna start gonna start saying it now and hopefully uh we get booked in. But it'd be it'd be a great trip. Uh we went to Pretoria last year, which was which was amazing, so Cape Town should be huge. Brilliant. Well I really appreciate talking to each other. Thank you very much. Good week, appreciate the support, thank you, mate.
SPEAKER_03So so I'm uh I'm here with Harry Wells, who made his deputy today. Um you played here a few times for Tigers, I'm sure. Um what do you feel about the game today? We never really got a foothold, did we? Uh I think it's really frustrating. I don't think we kind of put our best foot forward and kind of ri showed what we what we're about. Um it's it's obviously a really difficult place to go, but just disappointed to be on the wrong side of the scoreboard.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I mean it's one of those ones just uh just a file away. We've still got we've got 10 points off two games, and I think that fans were pretty happy with that. Um just a general question. I mean, you came into the squad quite late on in pre-season. Um you didn't have a club, I don't think, did you, when you you came in?
SPEAKER_03But how are you how are you enjoying Bristol? I'm really enjoying it. The lads have been brilliant, like they've welcomed me with open arms. I'm really enjoying playing a different a different style of rugby, different brands, and I think working with a different south coach has been really good for me. Um yeah, it's been it's been very different to Leicester, but I'm definitely enjoying my time here. Do you think you've earned yourself a seat to Cape Town for next weekend? Uh I didn't decide it's up to Patty at the end of the day, isn't it? Okay, well, we really appreciate all your efforts for the fans, and uh yeah, let's uh hope we see you out again on the field.
SPEAKER_06Brilliant, thank you.
SPEAKER_07Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_06So uh I'm I'm here again with uh Gabs Ibitoya. I've I've grabbed him after the game at Surrey's. Um Gabs, you didn't come on until late on. What I mean, what's it like when you come on and you know the team are sort of chasing the game a little bit? How do you sort of approach that? Do you feel like you've got to make an impression really quickly, or or do you sort of stick to your processes as it were?
SPEAKER_01We have to almost double down on the process, just everyone focused on their own job, especially me coming on, not trying to force things to do my job to my best of my ability and try and encourage others to do to do their bit as well. That's that's the thing I've got to do. I mean, what was your take on the game?
SPEAKER_06You know, we we were 11-7, you know, without doing that much, we we were in the game early in the second half, and then it kind of got away away from us, you know. From the from the bench, what were you what did you see that was the maybe the problem or the challenge?
SPEAKER_01I think it was just we we never really got into a rhythm, we never really built momentum, like strong phases together, just due to a few inaccuracies. Um that's what it felt like from the bench when the energy was there, the desire was there, and coming in at half time, 11-nil down, and it seems like everything's going Surrey's way. That's almost a positive because if we can level things out and things will start coming our way, but that never quite happened.
SPEAKER_06I did notice right at the end is a little bit of footballing skills as well. Uh I mean, off your left foot when I think the ball came out and you uh you did what most good centre backs do and just smash it straight to touch, but clear it. So uh are you a football fan by the way? No, I love it, yeah. Who do you sport? Arsenal. Arsenal. Oh yeah, you must feel sort of semi, semi-comfortable in North London then when you come back here, or or I suppose this is Tottenham area, isn't it? But no, North London is ours. So did you just have interest? I mean, with Arsenal finally winning the prep premiership last year, is that spurs you on to get one for the Bears as well?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I'd love to get one for the Bears. It would mean everything. We have a lot well, they've won the challenge card, but we've never done the premiership. So if we can cross that line of the end of the season, that'll be amazing. Who's your favourite Arsenal player?
SPEAKER_00Yoy.
SPEAKER_01That's a tough one. Ezre, Ezekiel.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, brilliant. No mate, I really appreciate it. Good to have a good trip to um Cape Town as well. Enjoy that.
SPEAKER_01Do you reckon you'll get first class or uh I don't know, I don't know how it works. I go on a play and then I turn right, I don't even look left. So brilliant.
SPEAKER_08Cheers, fellow, I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_06So I'm I'm here with uh Abe Boschoff, uh who famously played last season here as well, played again today, big shift today. Aiden, what do you think of the game?
SPEAKER_07It was a tough one. Obviously, very disappointed, felt like we couldn't impose our game on Saracens. Slow start, and then we were fighting back into the game, and the yellow card in the second half obviously didn't help much. So, no, we're disappointed, but we'll take that disappointment next week.
SPEAKER_06I mean, you you made a couple of good breaks though in the first half towards the end of the first half, and I mean you're always you're always fighting. I think it's the sort of thing the fans love. Seeing those, uh seeing your hair flowing and your thighs pumping. Yeah, and uh, I mean, what does it kind of mean to you to come out of play at the top level like this?
SPEAKER_07It means everything. If if I'm honest with myself, I was very frustrated with my opening 20 minutes. I didn't feel like I was the standard. Uh, and I know what the fans expect, I know what we expect as a club. Um I wasn't good enough personally, and then that that adds into the team as well and probably leads to the result today. I thought I was better in the second half, but I've got to start better than I did today. So, what are you gonna go back and reflect on then when you think about that? Review the game, take the emotion out of the game. I think I got quite emotional um when things started going wrong. Whereas actually, start of the second half, we came into the sheds and we broke it down and we started really well. Kind of we took the emotion out of it, just saw the pictures, and it went well from there. So, last question is is your nickname Bosch? It is, it is, of course it is. Everyone knows me as Bosch.
SPEAKER_06Mate, we you know we really appreciate you talking to us and uh keep up the good work, fella.
SPEAKER_07Thank you.
SPEAKER_06Okay, so boys, that was uh our special guests, but um starting with well, I think he's almost sort of like co-opted member of the pod, Jimmy Williams. Um, Mike when we need him. I'd say they're regular guests now. They seem well, him and Gabs and Joe, that's the second week in a row row they've been on. I mean, I think what I was really pleased about, I went back to them because I thought because uh I'd spoke to them last week after you know when they were cocka hoop and after a good game, it was it was really interesting to get their views on the game uh you know a week later on a different thing. And of course, what I think came across there was a was a lot of honesty from all of the boys, which was good to hear. But I mean they they talked a bit about the game, but Miles, what what was your thoughts then really?
SPEAKER_09Yeah, I mean I mean uh hats off, we're doff our cats to them. Um hats, cats, cats, caps and hats. That's that that they were more than happy to chat to you. You're right after uh immediately after defeat, so good on them, lads. I mean, your thoughts of the game, yeah. I mean, I've got mixed feelings. I mean, I think all of us didn't really predict that team sheet, did we? Um when that was announced on Friday. No, that was that was a curveball to say the least.
SPEAKER_05That changed that as soon as we put our predictions in last week. Yeah, yeah, I think so.
SPEAKER_09However, you know, I don't personally think that that was uh as big a loss, maybe as what some of us would have predicted looking at the team sheet. I mean, 30 points to seven in the end, it is not a saint, is it? So they they play particularly well. I I I guess the positives were a lot of the time the attack was really lively, so the effort, you know, let's not let's not you know beat around the bush. The effort was there, uh 110% as always, and some of the guys who stepped up did brilliantly. Um, but I don't know, I think you you sort of asked in the question it to one of the to bats or something that something wasn't functioning, and whether it's the new combinations, now we're told that they you know they train week in, week out with these combinations, but something wasn't clicking. We weren't as clinical as we were the last two games.
SPEAKER_06Um and it was clear there was that there were errors, there was some discipline issues, but I I mean I cannot, you know, effort was there, but suddenly something wasn't quite I'm I mean just to follow up on that point, I mean when you look at the the team selection, we had two players who had been signed essentially as kind of prem rugby club cover, yeah, of course, starting and in Harry Wells starting at lock and and Max Clark at 13. And that's not to take away their efforts, and in fact their efforts were were really good. And Max Clark unfortunately went off quite early on in the second half, got injured. But you know, he had he had he made quite a few breaks, line breaks, and you know, he was you know he was keen, and Harry Wells I think did exactly what we wanted him to do, which was to get amongst it. And you know, the reality was that we we actually defended really well in that first half. I think Saracen's had quite a lot of pressure, and you know, to only concede 11 points, I think was a really good was actually a really good first half. The problem was we just didn't look like scoring at all. And then and you know, we had Sam Worsley at fly half, and it was a big moment for him to go in there. He's not had you know he didn't have any game time really at the end of last season. He suddenly sort of thrust into the limelight again, and it was difficult for him to to sort of get the get the team moving, and you know, and yeah, I don't know. I mean I Jimmy was I thought Jimmy was very, very honest, and I I did catch him like right at the the end, right after the final whistle. Um but I think he was a little bit harsh on himself to be a bit because he was actually our best player. I also he was probably our man of the match, Jimmy. And yeah, he really did look the part and he defended hard. But you know, I mean you you listened to that Lee, but without seeing the game, I mean, you know, what what did you think about what Jimmy said?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I mean it's it's it's hard to have a a an opinion without what you are behind the curve on it this week, but I mean I think listeners would really appreciate the honesty. Um and I think especially with Bats and Jimmy and and Gabs as well, I think they're they're I mean they're professional sportsmen, right? And they're they're the biggest critics themselves, yeah. And you know, I think that they were brutally honest. I know you did catch them straight after the game, but I also think that's a really good time to catch them because win or lose, you get the the rule of motion, and I thought you did a brilliant job of doing that. I thought you were gonna say win or lose, hit the booze. Vincy's not here, no, but um you did a great job of doing that, Pete. You know, you were you you know you were at the cool face, and um and I think listeners will appreciate that. When you know, whatever the result, the honesty that's come through in those lads, um, you know, it's it's great, it's what we want to hear, isn't it? As supporters, as fans, that's what we want to hear.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I mean it was being there live, it as I said just now, I the first half was frustrating because we just couldn't get a foothold. Every opportunity we had to try and get something to happen, you know, we we dropped knocked it on or we dropped it. And I that's not necessarily because of poor play by us. I think Saracens were, you know, they were putting the pressure on us, and they they defended very hard in the midfield, their forwards were were you know defended hard and they put up loads and loads of box kicks which just kind of created chaos, but they weren't that good either. They're like they turned over the ball loads as well. It was it was a it wasn't a great spectacle in some ways, but it was a kind of the first half I was thinking, how is this game gonna go? I can't quite get my finger on it. So, in that sense, it was quite compelling, but it there was just a real sense of doom kind of over my shoulder. Shoulders the whole time, I've got to say.
SPEAKER_05I mean t talking from the AXI point of view, because when I saw the team sheets, I was obviously in Milan and I was shocked, I have to admit, and and this this is not taking anything away from the the players that have come in, but I was shocked at the the kind of like wholesale extent of replacements, and without taking anything away, the the kind of disjointedness of that many changes, it didn't bode well for me because I think as Miles had already like alluded to, um these players have formations and they have key components and they're and they're they all rely on each other. And you're having that many changes into a starting lineup, that's really tough. And we're playing Saris away, we've not beaten them ever with the Stone X. Yeah, and it's a hell of a gig to begin with, with a full you know, full strength squad. Um and the players that did step up obviously stepped up well, but it it's just it's it's too much of a gap, I think, to expect players to come in.
SPEAKER_06He did, I mean, Jimmy did say, didn't he? He said that he said it do you want to be technical about it? The shapes weren't quite there, and that kind of implies what you're saying is that it didn't quite click because perhaps that's the first time he's played with Max Clark outside him, or it's the first time Joe Worsley so Joe Worsley, oh not Blue and Melinhead, Sam Worsley, Jimmy Williams, and Max Clark have played. Yeah, I mean it's kind of inevitable.
SPEAKER_05And they they you know they might have that partnership in training, but it's totally different to a to a uh you know a full scale premiership match.
SPEAKER_09Well I agree, you know you know it felt watching the game, it felt quite flat without the big leaders that we've got in Bristol. And you know, there are some injuries we've got already, but you're right, the wholesale change in potentially some of the key key positions of dominance. Um yeah, I I did feel we were going to go in and that would be a tough gig. And now on the other hand, annoyingly, all of Sarry's best players appeared to be back from injury. You know, they had Kaluri absolutely on fire flying down the wing, you know, a nice a a dive, a swan dive sort of try on the fourth minute. Um Toj was like a man possessed, wasn't he? Come back after a break. And you know, you look at the size of him, then he's got a mate called it Sadake, who is an inch taller and about two inches wider than him. Now put those in the uh the the couple of those in the locks, I mean they were just on fire. Everything generally clicked for Sarries, and you you would expect that. That's the home game, and they would want to win, but in most of the positions I felt they were they were quite comfortable.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I mean when when was when did Harry Wells last play? No.
SPEAKER_06I mean but I go back to the first half. Whilst I I I sounded like I said, I didn't think we could score, we did defend hard. And I mean their try was a bit lucky. I th I don't we got we had possession of the ball in the midfield. I think George Klosker got stripped, um, and then they they moved it out wide quite quickly, and Farrell threw a quite a nice pass. And Calorey, you know, it just I mean, he is he is it perfect for him. He had just enough space, and I think he just got around Bosch off and Jimmy had Jimmy had tracked back and just almost got him into touch. And it was it was kind of an opportunist try, to be fair, but then again, that's what you've got to you've got to defend against it. You know, you you've got possession, you suddenly lose possession, you've got to be ready. And having said that, after that, he didn't do that much, and then in the second half, to be fair, when we did score our try, Boshoff skinned him to then pop it inside to Harry. And actually, I was there because as soon as that Harry started going, you know, print sprinting towards the line, Boshoff was like right in Kalori's face. He was actually like not really disrespectfully, he was like he was pumped because he had obviously it had been like as we found out, it had been bugging him that that first 20 minutes, he obviously was beating himself up over that.
SPEAKER_05He was brutally honest and yeah, like really critical of his performance. But you boys said that actually you you thought he was he was beaten. He played well.
SPEAKER_06I he was he was probably our second best player. I mean, I'd say that Jimmy, Lewis Reese Ammet, and him showed a lot in the you know, on another day we would have scored more tries.
SPEAKER_05But do you know what? As an aside note, it did it surprise me. He had a South African accent, right? And this is this is talking from someone who's I've actually had my photograph taken with him when we were away like a year or so ago.
SPEAKER_09I thought he was gonna be played. I thought he was gonna be full Welsh Saxon.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, but he's played for Wales under 20s, hasn't he? Yeah, but he's obviously got mixed heritage, but of course it's obvious now you look at his hair, isn't it? I mean, why do we not realise that's it? Now it's obvious. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean I I just go back to him quickly. I mean, it was interesting what he said that you know, again, it's like he he he was disappointed because he didn't feel he was the first 20 was on the game and he he he he let emotions get too much, and he obviously annoyed him that calorey try, but he you know, massive credit to him. There was a couple of runs he made that he looks he does look the part 100%. I do love the part and I think we need to stick with him. Um he'd be an absolute guarantee on that plane to South Africa's. We need he needs to play more rugby because he needs to he needs to feel what it's like to have that pressure. So yeah, I mean I think it was I mean Joe Batley also discussed our kind of you know, the the set piece wasn't quite as good, we weren't as clinical. And I mean when you look at the stats, the stats were I this is why I say I don't think it was a 37 30 to 7 game, I think it was quite a lot closer. I mean basically you know all the kind of meters, carries, all that were the same, and and essentially like we've we've had we've been here before with these stats, they had um uh they I'm just looking at the time in the um the big stat is like when you're in the um 22. So here we go. So entries in the 22 for Saris was 12, entries in the 22 for us 10. So fairly similar. They got 30 points and we got seven. Big difference, and then when you look at um things like even things like they conceded more turnovers than us, so that kind of implies that we got the possession of the ball, but we just then didn't couldn't keep hold of it, couldn't keep hold of it and and in the right times. And um tackles, you know, we made a lot of tackles, we won more turnovers. Line out we only we lost two, which is unlike us, we don't expect to lose line outs, and the and of course it's when you lose the line outs because we lost one right on half time when we were where we knocked it on and uh when we could have scored. So yeah, it's like it was it was quite close, and I think you know the other thing was having said all that, and um I think uh it was Jimmy that said it, you know, sixteen penalties as well. That's too much, yeah. And and not all of those penalties led to anything because actually there was a few times I remember that we they then gave away penalties afterwards, but sixteen's not good, is it?
SPEAKER_09Well, they scored I mean they got six points out of those sixteen. Yeah, you don't need to give Saracens any extra help, do you, at all? And then they just penalise you, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_05Well, exactly. Can we can we just personally congratulate Bats on his undrift cap as well? Because it's such a such a milestone for someone who's I mean, we're lucky to to know him a little bit, and you know, such a milestone for someone who's been through such a uh you know a real battle in his life outside the rugby, you know, outside the pitch. Umrift cap and he is like we just love him, don't we? I mean the supporters absolutely love him to bits, and well done, Bats.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, no, it's uh it's good. And let's hope let's let's say I hope he gets to 200. I just hope so. Definitely 150. I mean I kind of feel like Bats is Bats is the sort of guy that unless he gets big money offer from Japan or France, he's gonna stay with us forever, isn't he? And then he'll go into coaching. He'll go into coaching, and then I mean I you know, this is a completely off the bat. I haven't even thought about this, but I'm sort of see I can see Bats as a sort of DOR in the future. 100%. Absolutely, absolutely. He's he's got that kind of balance, hasn't he? That he could do that. Yeah, so yeah, so I mean, just go back. I mean, very quickly for you, your benefit as as well as other listeners lee. I mean, I've written down key moments in the first half. I mean, I think we did defend well. I mean, Luca did a couple of turnovers, back-to-back turnovers when we were under the the pump a little bit. Um, we almost scored right at the end with Joe Worsley, and and just to um only I only saw that so excuse me. I only saw this on the replays, but on the on Jimmy, I didn't see it live, but Jimmy did an amazing little no-look offload that popped it back to Worsley, who could have scored on the line and then tried to pass it to LR's um Zam and it and it got intercepted. So we you know, and then you know, as I said before, it was a kind of cheap try. I mean, they took it like Owen Farrell took the three, it took a couple of penals. I mean, it was probably about right, 11-0. It could have been I think maybe 11-7 would have been.
SPEAKER_09We'd lost George Taylor, hadn't we, as well?
SPEAKER_06Oh, yeah, let's talk about that. H I A and what did you think about that, Miles?
SPEAKER_09Um hang on, they got a yellow car, didn't they, in the end?
SPEAKER_06So let's just set the context. Only about 10 minutes in. Um, George Taylor there's like a collision in midfield. It didn't look like in the naked eye anything. George Taylor gets up and starts fucking walking off in the opposite direction. He'd obviously been concussed. And the the the ref stopped the game and looked at him, said, Alright, mate, just calm down, sit down. And he and he had blood coming out. And on the basis of that, they went and looked at it, and he'd he'd basically been hit in the sh the head by the big lad's shoulder, yeah. Sadeca's shoulder, and they gave him a yellow. And the irony of that was that we then lost George Taylor for the whole game, who was a big unit, playing six, part of the game plan. We don't see him. Sadeca gets 10 minutes, comes back on again, and influences the game. Yeah, it's not right. No, no, I know it just didn't sit right, and the and even worse, that they scored three points in that time. We scored nothing. Of course. So I thought, and then someone online said it was a bit like Tom Jordan's last year against Tigers when he got he got a 20-minute red. And it was there was no mitigation, he did not change direction, he hit him with the wrong shoulder as well. So the point was that it was just a really bad tackle, and then I think Woodthorpe said it wasn't high danger, and I thought the bloke was walking around in circles and had blood pouring out of his head. How can that not have been a high danger?
SPEAKER_09I know the mitigation, I think that they were both dropping. That's the only thing I can think.
SPEAKER_06But the mid but but the Sadeko made no attempt. No, no. No attempt to tackle, so there was he was putting it was to me, it was high danger because he didn't and the and again I go back to it. I go back to the fact that George Taylor, like, you know, didn't know, you know, he probably won't remember that game. And he was, you know, we may, you know, we may we lost him for the whole game. We've probably lost him for two weeks. And I get a precedent was Tom Jordan last year, and there was no they said there's no mitigation, even though the guy sidestepped into it in this one, he didn't, he just went he actually got it wrong, basically. And if you get a thing is you've got if you get it wrong, you've got to get some some because that the whole point of this was to stop head injuries. Absolutely. So we never know, midweek it might get. Saracen's fans won't dis won't agree with me, but I I thought that I thought it was a 20-minute read. Well, it doesn't matter now, I don't even care if it gets upgraded or not. I mean, I don't got nothing against the guy, I'm sure he's a lovely bloke, but he just that's what the rule is there for.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and he knows that.
SPEAKER_06And if he's and if he's gonna, you know, if he he should have he should he went in, that was the thing. If he knows that, you know, if he if George Taylor's dipping towards him, then you just let him come into you. Yeah, and then you let him go on the floor, get your arms up, get him the jackal. So anyway, there's my rule. And I I mean it's it's one of those things. What I mean, obviously, I'm a fully qualified referee. I've done all of the uh I mean it didn't help us, did it? No, no, no. It didn't help us. I mean it didn't, yeah. Well it didn't help us because you know maybe George Taylor might have made a difference. Um anyway, so half time was a bit, you know, as Jimmy said, he said we hadn't done anything, and he was kind of right, although right at the end we almost did, and then I thought, well that's it, you know, that we've blown it. And then actually, ironically, we we had a purple patch for about 10 minutes in the second hour. Wait a sec though. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Halftime was a good personal period for you, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_06I should say. I managed to I managed to. I there was a little bit of blaggery that went on, which I'm not sure I should.
SPEAKER_09Were you a bit peckish?
SPEAKER_06I managed to get into an area where there was free food, and particularly donuts. Homer symptoms.
SPEAKER_09I had about I had a feeling last year to say donuts. You were having pies and coffee as well.
SPEAKER_06Well, I didn't think it's a favourite venue of yours. I did I I did go and spend a tenner on a hog roast roll. I'll come back. Actually, remind me after we'd done the chat about the game to come back to the stadium stuff because I I've got a few comments. Um and then, yeah, I mean, Miles, we had a bit of purple patch, didn't we? We scored. Randall scored. Yeah, yeah, it was a lovely run by Bosch. Describe the try to leak.
SPEAKER_09It was a lovely little run by Bosch, and then was it that's the Kalouri one, he sort of sidestepped. Randall rightly so, it was on his shoulder, popped it inside, and then almost a running.
SPEAKER_06It came from about two breaks we had. Wilson kicked one through and chased it, got possession, and then we kind of lost it. Then it got kicked back to Reese Samut, and he then we had a nice little move where Zamit came off his wing and picked up the ball in midfield and got round Calorey and then gave it to Boschoff. Boschoff kind of went a bit, we we were right in their 22, and then I think it got cleared, and then we had a we had a little ruck on the left wing, so probably between the 10 metre and their 22, and Ranz saw an opportunity, he sniped blind, and Calorie did what do we say wingers shouldn't do?
SPEAKER_09Cut in.
SPEAKER_06He he bit in and he bit in, and Rans just popped it to Bosch, who got round Calore, Ranz did what every scrum half does, carries on running and popped it inside, and then he had about a 20-12, he was outside the 22, so it was like a 30-meter sprinting. It was a really it was like you watch that, you think, how did we not do that in the first half? Like it's so easy, it's like literally so easy. So, in a way, Calorey you know got stung there, and he's got a lot to learn, the lad. Yeah, yeah. If I saw him, don't bite in. So it was a good and then we we were looking good, and then Lee, you didn't watch the game, but predict what happened for five minutes after the first time.
SPEAKER_09That was at 40 that was at 46 minutes, so you know what you always said score early in the second half.
SPEAKER_06But what do you think happened five minutes after we scored? Five minutes we've we've dropped.
SPEAKER_05Having defended really well. We've made an error or some description, haven't we?
SPEAKER_09It was 11-7 at that point. Were we on the kekkers are up?
SPEAKER_06Did we drop the ball? No, but what do you think generally happened in the game? What did what did they do five minutes after we scored? They obviously have scored. Yeah, they scored, yeah. I mean that's sorry, I thought I was given. Yeah, but the point was it was yeah, but it was like they scored a try that was totally the opposite of what we'd of the first half where we'd been defending pick and goes and all that, and then they just kind of scored quite a reasonably easy and I was thinking last it's so frustrating. I I didn't blame them. I think you know it was frustrating. So we went 18-7. That took us to 18-7 down. 18-7. And we were still in the game, kind of, but there was quite a lot of kicking. There was I was I was standing at the side and one of uh they they they box kicked again, and I think Lewis Resamet dropped it, and then some Sarry's Sarries goes, Um, oh uh Bristol, when you're gonna catch the ball, and then this this broad Bristolian accent. I thought you'd flown back from Milan actually, when Sarry, when you're gonna pay your salaries, right? And then it was like they were all like it was quality, brilliant, and uh anyway, it was highlighting two deficiencies with both clubs, to be fair. One is that we can't catch a ball, and the other one was that they uh they were accounting. They were accounting, wasn't it? So um, anyway, Miles, tell Lee what happened then. We were 18-7, probably still in the game.
SPEAKER_09Absolutely, but they got key moment. Are we gonna say key moment? Yeah, potentially, yeah. I think the game was gone after that point. We mind you, we brought on um Halliwell and Fitz uh what about 59 minutes, um but I have a feeling Sarry's bought on some of the some some more in their sort of pack and front row. Um and in the ascendancy got a r got a mall, probably in our sort of five in the 22, heading to our five metre line, with there's no way we're stopping it, and unfortunately it collapsed. We didn't really see why. And Anthony Woodthorpe immediately ran under the post and gave a penalty try.
SPEAKER_06I I don't like the way refs are very happy to do, they look very satisfied on a penalty try. And you think, mate, like we all know that you know it's not much fun having like almost 20 blokes like falling on top of you. It's not it's not like most people who, when they say they collapsed them all, have done it on purpose, they've just been like steamrolled, and it's like the slight sense of satisfaction, it's like don't no one does that on purpose, didn't it?
SPEAKER_09Absolutely. Well, it gets worse because then you know, someone alluded perhaps potentially the sort of lino on that side that um Lovejoy Chawatama was the offending forward who took obviously deliberately pulled the whole mall down. I mean, one man is pulling down, you know, uh a thousand sort of stone of you know, it's ridiculous, and it's judged to have and given a yellow card.
SPEAKER_06I think it was a lino that gave it as well, that gave it to Woodthorpe, because Woodthorpe was on the wrong side. You couldn't see it, could he? I mean pulling the mall down thing is is a bit like let's get the big picture was they were driving towards our line and it was looking pretty bad bleak and the the mall went down and it was just of like 16 big blokes all and you would say well uh the odds are that you know they didn't score, but they would have scored. But the point I mean that's the way it's a penalty try. So the implication is that we did, but when you actually I watched it on the replay, because they're trying to score, they're all clearly trying they're starting to dip as well, yeah. Because they're aiming for the life, of course, and they're gonna put the ball in a ground, and it's a it's a kind of grey area that you just as m automatically assume that it was and I think that even flats on commentary gave a little bit. He thought Chow Tong was a bit on he thought that they were basically on pushing him down. So anyway, it is what it is, and like people say, Oh shut up, you know, it is what it is, but but it is game gone. It was game gone then, and Chow Tong with the look on his face, he's like mate. I've just greased my legs. Mate, I can't go back, I can't run back the I can't sit on the seat because I'll stick, I'll stick to the seat.
SPEAKER_09You know the exercise, you know the exercise bike they have to sit on to keep warming.
SPEAKER_06And you know, like am I gonna slide on? I almost thought Jake Jake Walmore, Halliwell, and then Chawatama looked at Haliwell saying, It was you on it, like Haliwell's like nothing that's no more me. I want to play, I don't want to go off.
SPEAKER_09Literally, what thought there was no no more WD-40 left for my legs, mate.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, he wasn't. I felt really sorry for him. You know, I mean that is a you've been like waiting all game to come on, you trundle on because the scrum was under pressure, so he had he knew he had a job to do. Yeah, he trundles on.
SPEAKER_09I mean, I think at that point it was about 60 minutes, they're 25-7 up, they're in the ascendancy. You know, that they've got their peppers up, haven't they?
SPEAKER_05They're literally, you know. I'll tell you what makes me laugh though when you say wood form, it reminds me of uh what was that film with Dan Dan Aggroyd and uh Eddie Murphy, the Christmas one.
SPEAKER_06Oh um, yeah. Oh someone will have to tell us. We need to research these things. Wood form it was I think his surname was something like that, wasn't it? Cracks me up. Come back to it, but yeah, anyway. So that was game gone, Miles, wasn't it? Game gone. Uh well nearly, because then they scored again three minutes later. That was game even more gone. Well, they scored, they I mean they it was Bracken. Actually, that was a backencamp. Jack Bracken scored, could try. They but they were up, and he actually I think he skinned or got around Toby Wilson. And I don't really blame him for that. It was it was difficult, he was a man down, so he was kind of covering both fullback and wing. And I I you know, so it was, and it was then they were cocka hoop, and I think to be fair, there were some quite nice Sarri's young lads near me, and they were like, Yeah, it was okay, but we definitely didn't weren't, you know, with one another's top gonna be a lot closer. No, he thought they thought we still had defended well, but they did just said it was just our attack just didn't click. No, and again, it we're down to that sort of problem where we think, How do we problem solve this during a game? Because it's clearly not working, so what do we do to try and make it work? And then they would argue, well, we did, we had a purple patch, but you know that it was probably the key moment wasn't necessarily the the mall coming down, it was letting them score five minutes after we'd scored. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05And we should have doubled which often that's happened. Um right, boys. Now you've summed that up eloquently, right? As you always do. I've got a bit of a a goat now. I'm gonna fly straight into this one. Fly in. And it's with uh it's Mr. Gabsibatoy. Yeah. Mr. Gabbs. London. North London is not red. North London is white. And uh you next time we see you, you can uh I'll tell you myself, you can get back over to Woolwich where you belong, and uh and we'll sort that out man to man.
SPEAKER_06London is ours, exactly. Exactly. I did, I asked him that purely because I knew it would wind you up. Yeah, I I'm guessing you'd for those of listeners, maybe new listeners in Lee's as Tottenham fan, even though he doesn't sound like one, he is a fully fledged Tottenham fan. And those of you that don't know anything about football, Arsenal and Tottenham they don't like each other. They don't like each other and they share North London, allegedly. But anyway, that's it. Right, boys, let's quickly let's go through player performances quickly, because despite that, like we don't want to be too naive, there were some quite good performances. It was just that like performances in moments rather than sustained performances. So, Mars, have you got any thoughts?
SPEAKER_09Um I'm trying to think. I thought you had another good game, is Luca Ivanishvili. He did. I think the more game time he's getting, he's getting better and better and better. Now, we did discuss this on a couple of other pods that maybe just needed a sort of year to integrate into language, the Bristol Bears way. I don't know. Scrow his moustache, moustache, Prem star rugby, but he's playing really well, and again, I don't think he really put he did some lovely turnovers, some um you know, stealing the balls, it's uh some jackals. I so I'm gonna give it in in the pack, he's my go-to man, I think. I think he played played really well.
SPEAKER_06And I should also say that when I moved to the other side of the ground in the second half, hoping to see some Bristol tries, and then ended up coming back to where I was, but he definitely got hit in the goads in the second half because there was a bit where he was he was looking very uncomfortable and rubbing his groin. Not a busters. I did say this is a reason why I'm glad I never was a professional rugby player because he looked like it was for a split second, he was looking around and thinking I don't want to be here. I literally was a split second, it literally was now that TBR is a correct usage of uh of literally. So yeah, anyone else in the pack?
SPEAKER_09Um it was tricky, you know, because in the second half we were giving away quite a few scrum penalties and they were basically in the ascendancy, so it's difficult to you know, no one played badly. Um I mean O'Grey got taken off. Maybe that was Oh, he was injured.
SPEAKER_06No, I saw him, I meant tell you that. Oh, okay. Yeah, he's his his calf, he was he had an ice pack on, he got taken off half-time, and I saw him only just come back from an injury, so I thought that was precautionary. He told me it was in the first scrum that he he he kind of felt tight and he he got through the half and it was the same one that the injury'd had, so there was precautionary. Okay. So he was kind of he wasn't he wasn't still relatively chippers on the pitch afterwards, and I went and chatted to him. I said, I'm not gonna ask you about you know what you're gonna say. I mean we I just I told everybody what he said, but the point was he it was he he was definitely he you I mean he had a blimmin ice pack on, so it wasn't like it would have to be like Sherlock Holmes to work out that there was a nickel so but it wasn't so bad. I don't think he'll go to South Africa. I think he pretty much said I won't go to South Africa, which I think is fine.
SPEAKER_05Are we writing that off by the way? Well come out, we haven't got that. Okay, yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry.
SPEAKER_09So we're just doing players. I mean, I think generally, you know, there was yeah, there was a massive pack that Sarry's put out. Um and you know the the boys did a sterling effort. Um you do a sterling effort or a sterling job? Job.
SPEAKER_06It was a sterling effort. Made a sterling, but it was a sterling effort. The hundred percent effort. Just gotta just because I feel like we're now getting judged on a couple of yeah. So we're just checking, Miles. 100% effort. Yeah. Um you said 110 earlier.
SPEAKER_04I I we're gonna get Paul on that as well, aren't we? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_06Keep going, mate, keep going, sorry.
SPEAKER_09It's it's I think that's it in the pack. Yeah, no one did anything wrong, but they were so strong. I I think it was hard to sort of you know judge that anyone else that had a standout performance.
SPEAKER_06I I Closker made a couple of big hits in the first half that were mentioned, but also he was the one that got stripped, so you'll be disappointed with that.
SPEAKER_09I mean, Halliwell came on and marmalised Thomas Williams, didn't he? Oh, it was brilliant. You'll have to look at that on the highlight.
SPEAKER_06It was like and even though they were on the comms, they were saying Thomas Williams, mate, you just got that all roll. He's twice the size of you. Why are you going high on him? What? And you could almost see Halliwell loving it when he went. Um about Pete? What about in the backs? Anyone you thought played particularly well? I mean, Randall had a kind of bits and pieces game. You know, there were times that he was his Randall best. He was trying to make things happen, he was quick. Try was brilliant, but he had one terrible box kick that went straight up in the air. And of course, he knows the law is that if he don't catch it, it's a basically a guaranteed penalty because there's no way that they can all get 10 meters, and he made his desperate attempt to catch his own, catch his own kick and got it all wrong. And I mean, it luckily nothing came of the penalty, so which is pretty much the story in that first half. Yeah, we gave away penalties and nothing came of them. But so Rand's probably be disappointed, but he but he did play well in parts. I mean, a couple of good kicks and stuff, although apart from that box kick. Um and I mean I think Jimmy Williams was probably the man of the match, and and uh for consistency, I think so, didn't really do anything wrong, tried to make things happen, so you know, was was almost the leader really in the middle. Um Boschhoff, I thought had also a very good game after it after he got his head round his first 20 minutes, and he looked the part. I've said this already, he really does a massive fan of massive fan of him. Huge fan. Um I thought LRZ had a that was the other one I think really Samut was brilliant.
SPEAKER_09I thought he was really he dare we say that he's a play he looked the package in the right position.
SPEAKER_06Couple of good kick he he kicked a bit, he caught most of the balls, he dropped a few of the first half, to be fair, but um nice little run. Yeah, he just unfortunately never quite got the ball in the position we want him to. In the space he was um and then I'd I'd I'd say in um Max Clark, Toby Wilson. You know, Max Clark acquitted himself really well considering he'd never played for us. I liked him at Bath to be fair. It just looks he he made in fact he made one of those annoying things in rugby where he he Jimmy did a little pop pass, it was really quick, quick down the line, pop pass to Max. He he got through two defenders, but he went too far and got got pinged for holding on because it was almost too good because the the the um clear-out men couldn't get there in time. Yeah, so I'd I say and mention dispatches to Toby Wilson just because obviously he he wasn't in the 23 as a selection, he was he was available, and then he gets put brought in and he looked like he wanted to be there, he looked like he he was hungry to be a bear. So I think we'll see a bit more of him this season, and I look forward to it. I like do you know what I did, boys? I like the cut of his jib. I knew you'd say that. Nice short back and sides. Yeah, so I think I think that's players. I think um Jack Bates, I actually was really good to see Jack get on. And uh he he played well. I mean, you know, again in that purple patch, he played some he played well, he popped it, and he he's got good. He's got a really nice running style, Jack. He looks he's quite silky, he is, and I like and I just want him, we all want him to get a run, don't we? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_09Well, yeah, I think Noah Hewitt's gonna be out for some time, isn't he? I think we understand that now. So these boys have got to step up, and it's nice to have some more backs available, which we haven't had in the case.
SPEAKER_06I would say I'd say Jack's earned himself uh an economy class seat to Cape Town. He's one of our own. He's one of our own. No, he's he's economy because I he's he only came on, you know, he only did 30 minutes. Yeah, okay. Um so yeah, I mean it was just it was I I went there because I did say last week that I thought it was worth it for the chance that I might be be able to say I was there when we broke the hoodoo. Yeah. And then I wasn't quite to be, was it? Well those donuts. Those donuts you had, Pete. Yeah, but after 30 minutes, I said to the Saraces guy, I said, I just cannot see a score in a tall. And he he's like, No can I. I just and I just said, It's not that we're not trying, it's just we cannot keep hold of the ball. Yeah, that's got me the deaf network. And that you know, that's now that's what sent me to the blooming donut donut box. And for just for the record, how many did you eat? I had one, I had four.
SPEAKER_09They were like ring, they were like ring, they were like ring donuts. Oh, they're quite small, they don't count.
SPEAKER_06They were like sort of pseudo um crispy cream donuts. One of them had like caramel in it. They were all ring donuts. They were lovely. It was only because Damien Derrick had said to me, get in, because he had to finish off a little bit, can you get in there and save me? And I got four, and then when he came in, there was loads there anyway, so he didn't need them, and I'd already had them on the table. I couldn't put them back, could I? Well, you were like his little student. And get me some food, will you?
SPEAKER_09Oh yes, boss. Oh no, mate.
SPEAKER_06You did give me a free lift there and back because I just basically said anything you want.
SPEAKER_09I guess other other than your donuts, tell us about tell us about the ground. I was gonna finish off the stone out.
SPEAKER_06There's there is a narrative out there, and I've seen this already in the forum that it's a soulless stadium. It didn't look that busy, it wasn't that busy, on TV. It wasn't a last week either. It wasn't that busy, but what I actually really enjoyed it. I I enjoyed the things I enjoyed was that I could walk all the way, yeah, get to the side, I could watch them warming up, you could do a you could do a 360. Oh yeah, you can't quite do a 360 track. Yeah, I mean I to be fair, as I broke my 400 metre record in the water. A couple of hurdles, right? Before the donuts, yeah, and they put the hurdles away. I mean, I was disappointed I couldn't do the shot put, but that was on the bit. Anyway, the point was that I liked and it they've got a brilliant set, like the food options, a drink. I mean, if I hadn't have eaten 10 donuts, I would have bought something, but no, I mean it's and it's open and it was quite a buzz. And like the Saracens fans I spoke to were alright, and like they you know, they there's it there's always annoying fans and good fans, and of course, and they you know their PA system was good. I could hear everything. Yeah, for an open stadium, and all right. It didn't have that sort of Ashton Gate roar of you know when we're about to score or when we're defending. It I thought I really un I really appreciate what they're trying to do here, like they're trying to make it as good for fans, and then and the guy from Fezcast I spoke to the week agreed that yeah. But and then why you know they there's all that bean thing about meet Brendan Ventner and all the media stuff. Oh yeah, and then is Saris being typical Sarys and but they let everyone run on the pitch, and it was a planned thing so that kids could go and see the players, and the players knew that, so they was they waited and there was this mingling, and I thought, well that wouldn't happen at Ashton Gate. So let's let's let's be a little bit respect to what the club are trying to do there. Yeah because they are desperate for they're desperate for fans because like because of what Gab said, it's it's Arsenal Tottenham everywhere.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I mean you know, um that is great, don't get me wrong, but they're letting the kids run onto a shitty pitch. They're not gonna do Ashley.
SPEAKER_09You could take high heels onto that, it ain't gonna damage it, is it?
SPEAKER_06The little shoes, the little shoes running on, they should be alright.
SPEAKER_04The last time I I I ran on the Ashlandate pitch and got taken out and closed by by Stewart.
SPEAKER_09I think the last time we ran on when we got promoted, wasn't it, into the Prem? Yeah, wasn't it that long ago? Do you remember Ben Glyn? Yeah, yeah, that long ago.
SPEAKER_06But no, okay, but the fact is they didn't have to do that, but they did.
SPEAKER_09They do it, I think, every home game.
SPEAKER_06Um I just I just think I like I know I'll probably get pelters from people for this, but I you know they have I just thought they they try everything they can to make it a decent, decent out. And if the if there aren't enough fans there to cheer, it's not their fault the fans that are there, and they are up against it massively with football and trying to persuade kids to go. So I mean on another note, you've mentioned the pitch, and I forgot about that. I was gonna quickly obviously it's come out, Pat has said now formally. I think it's because Damian Derrick asked him, was that uh you know we didn't pick Rip Pedro, Stevie, McGuinty, and start with Fitz because we didn't want to get them injured. And it is right you see I've I'm I'm a bit on the bent f the fence.
SPEAKER_05Oh you know they call you.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, but is there really where's the evidence? Where is like I've not seen a where's the evidence that you get more injured on plastic pitches? I know it don't look right and it doesn't sound right and therefore it probably isn't right, but I haven't seen like do Saracen's players get injured more? Did Sale players sales came with a fully, fully, fully loaded team and beat them last week and none of their players got injured as far as I know? So is this a kind of convenient narrative for losing all the time there? I don't know, that's my question. We haven't lost it, you know. We put four people out of Gloucester, maybe not at Newcastle, we generally do, unless it not Charles Piertow. So my point is is this a real thing or is it a kind of it's a useful narrative?
SPEAKER_05If Pat did that at Gloucester, it'd be absolutely slaughtered. Exactly. Make no bones about that.
SPEAKER_09You're right. Is it sounding like a bit like a smoke screen?
SPEAKER_06But then we did get injuries at Newcastle, didn't we?
SPEAKER_09Yeah, well, I mean the thing is yes, what I mean you're right, but Gab's got his major injury, didn't he? Twisted his knee, and I get that.
SPEAKER_05Well Charles never played at Newcastle, did he? Full stop. But I think it was just too much. I think it was too much of a cut. I mean, it's like going into Dan Dan the Barber's Dan on Coronation Raid, wouldn't it? And you know, asking for a little short back inside and then coming coming out with a crew cart or a skin head. You know what I mean? He's taking a bit to it. Yeah. And I you know, if it's too much. Yeah, I just and but but equally, you know, Pat is got you know, is looking after the players, which is you know, which is obviously what he's meant to be doing. But I just I feel maybe it was just a bit too it was too many players in one air.
SPEAKER_06Indeed, that's what worries me. And I think that's the probably the the ultimate summary of the game is that we were just a little bit disjointed and not quite as cohesive as we might have been if we'd had the same players who'd played. But then Pat may well have looked at this and said we got ten from two.
SPEAKER_09You're right.
SPEAKER_06I mean that would take that.
SPEAKER_09Looking at the whole season, yeah, is one game.
SPEAKER_06And we've got two home games, two home games back to back where we can. I mean, you say it's one game, but I mean we don't have that many games.
SPEAKER_09No, agreed. Um, but you know, you know, uh we we finished top, but you know, and look what happened, and we just need to get in the top four.
SPEAKER_06There will be some disquiet of fans that traveled and said I travelled there, and then I I was expecting to see our best players.
SPEAKER_09Well, we we predicted, did we say we're gonna go big because we Saracens have lost the week before, and then we were just taking.
SPEAKER_05I mean, also this is this is big for us now. We've never won there. So I used the three of us just sat around his table last week. This was almost like our cup final in a way, you know what I mean? Because the like Bears fans want to go up there and actually beat them on their own turf. Yeah, and we haven't done it. It's not turf though, is it? Well, yeah, excuse the fun.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, um, but yeah, it was we can't literally beat them on their own turf, can we?
SPEAKER_09No, but now you know what, so we're gonna have to wait for the home leg, aren't we?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, to sort of Which is I think that's where we're gonna go. We if Pat don't put a strong side out in the home game, then we'll be I mean there is an I think maybe another time this, but there is still something slightly wrong with three clubs out of seven having different surfaces that they're used to playing on more than what than the opposition, and so I think it's a it's a debate that is not like everything in life, it's not completely black and white. Well, you you you were a pitch side, and you could you could see yourself that the speed of it's just it's almost like it's too fast. It's like we couldn't quite get like Gab said, we couldn't get a rhythm. And I just think again, is there something in that that you just can't quite whereas Sarri's are used to it, they train on it or whatever, I imagine.
SPEAKER_05I mean, the old the old school football fans that are listening. Do you remember Kenilworth Road Pete when I mean literally?
SPEAKER_08When it bounced 50 foot at the end, yeah.
SPEAKER_05I mean Les Seely would kick the ball out, and all of a sudden Mick Horrified who's six foot four or whatever, and it's bounced about fifteen foot over his head. They got rid of that though quickly enough, exactly. And I think we should do the same with the three we're talking about.
SPEAKER_06I mean, it seems like they you know there is this to enter the Prem, they've got all these regulations about stadium size and that, and maybe there should be also consistency on pitches. And obviously Ashton Gate has got the the innovative hybrid thing, and of course, the trouble with that is it costs an arm and a leg. And I imagine if you said to clubs you've got to have that, they would say, Well, it's not really fair. And if we go grass, it can like in the winter, it's it's it's a difficult one, boys.
SPEAKER_05I mean, no one's saying that they've got to have the same pitch as what we've got. I mean, we're very lucky, we all know that Ashton Kate, but there's got to be we've got to meet in the middle somewhere, haven't we? Because that is the complete opposite of it doesn't feel right with rugby, does it?
SPEAKER_09No, it just doesn't feel right, yeah. You're gonna go.
SPEAKER_06We felt as though we needed to cover cover that. Yeah, yeah. And I think we have. Um you're listening to Bears Beyond the Gate, a Bristol Bears podcast made by fans for fans. Um, you can follow us on various social media channels. Twitter, to be honest, is our got our biggest number of followers, which probably recommend r reflects our demographic. Facebook, we also got quite a lot, but I feel like we could do more. Um, Instagram, we could we you know I've banged the Instagram drum, I've put loads of socials out. Even Lee's now. I still find there's stubbornly not enough followers on Instagram. I don't know what to do. So if there's anyone out there that can like advise us on how we can get our Instagram followers up, because like whenever I whenever I put something out, we get loads of viewers, although they're mainly our own followers. I just want to get how do you get more followers? But I don't know. Anyway, someone will tell us some media studies as people have done already, there is a way of on the Buzz Sprout website. You can there is a you know fans, like you can type an email and it comes to us. So we always like to get feedback, especially from Joycey's mates. You might even also email us directly like Rachel Pierce does.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, even older uh listeners might even send us a letter.
SPEAKER_06I mean, who yeah, but we can't, we've got no address. We haven't even got a PO box. Well, you could send it to the Bristol Beer Factory Tat room, it'll get to us. And on that note, joking aside, I was talking to um Nat, who's uh we know is is a sort of newer bar manager, and he said there's quite a lot of people come in here and say that you know this is where the podcast is recorded. He's he's said that a few times. So they ask, well, they ask or they or they comment about it. They say, Oh yeah, we love the fact because this is where the boys do the pod. So anyway, so I that was my little because I forget Tony used to see that all the time, like remind people that you can know and such. And I've just remembered. So get in touch with us bearsbeyondegate at gmail.com, Bears Beyond Gate is our Twitter handle, Bears Beyond the Gate is our Instagram handle, and so on. Okay, um, we were gonna very briefly talk about sharks, random this random kind of first round of the Champions Cup. Uh we've got a you know, it's we've got this, and then there's two more premiership games, and then it then there's another, then we get Munster, don't we? At home. So they've brought I think they brought the first one forward to try and Stormers.
SPEAKER_09Did I say sharks? Sorry, Stormers. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Um and they brought it forward one week, I think, or a bit, just to kind of get the cup, the interest going. But it's a it's alright if you're just going down the road to you know, but if you or to France, but if you're going to South Africa, it's a bit annoying. So Lee, very briefly, thoughts on that and and are we going to take it seriously?
SPEAKER_05I don't believe we're gonna take this game seriously. I I feel like I mean Miles, you've got the stats there. They finished third.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, I just looked up the URC last season. Uh DHL Stormers finished just behind Leinster in third, so no mugs, yeah. Yeah, I um and in fact the Vodacum Bulls were four, so those South African teams Well no when I say not seriously, I'm sure the players that do get picked will give you everything.
SPEAKER_06Sorry for complicated. No, that's my fault. Right. It was my fault.
SPEAKER_09But but this this unique sort of like break in the Prem, um going all the way to South Africa. I get this the same time zone, but the travel is a lot, isn't it? You know, the the boys are probably fine.
SPEAKER_06I think they're going out tomorrow. Tomorrow, which is fine, it's just coming back. That they've got then they've got a prem game. At least we're we're Saturday and then we've got extra following Saturday.
SPEAKER_09So 3 p.m. this Saturday.
SPEAKER_05It's not a short turnaround. So you asked my personal opinion. I think we sack this one off.
SPEAKER_09Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And not not sack it off in terms of like we go there to lose. The boys will always try their best, but I think that the focus should be more on the Prem.
SPEAKER_06Well, we've got back-to-back home games, we we have to need target winning those. Yes, has to be absolutely 100%. But how do you remember our selection would all be around that?
SPEAKER_09Strange you. Do you remember we went to South Africa last year? Scored like 62. We watched that game in mind, didn't we? Noah Hewitt. Noah Hewitt. Uh you know, with with with their sum block and yeah, you're right. So we might I I sort of agree with you. This is a what it's a one off game. Potentially, they're a very good side at home. Let's potentially write this one off. I mean, we don't want an embarrassing score line, but the two games after that are far more important in our in our calendar.
SPEAKER_06Do you remember we it a few years ago we went we Played maybe in Bordeaux when we sent quite a young team and we lost, but they quitted themselves well. And I think that's what we're looking for is some fringe players, which sounds a bit disrespectful. I mean squad players to give them a chance, like Toby Wilson, start him at fullback. Yeah. Um Joe Worsley, give him another go at a fly off. Oh, and obviously and Sam. Jimmy Halliwell, get him involved. Did I say Joe Worsley? Yes again. I'm obsessed with that bloke's head. Mellon head.
SPEAKER_05Sam Worsley. But we should actually say, remember the year or the season before that? Dunny said how important it was when he played when we played Claremont. Yeah, yeah. Like the experience.
SPEAKER_06But we'll have to send a few. Like Batley at Bats will go because you need like you need some sort of run models there.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, and I think you're right. We need some leaders to go, don't we? Sounding like they've got a powerful pack anyway. I mean, this is the slight worry.
SPEAKER_06You don't want to get you don't want to get steamrolled, and there is that downside of like take it not too seriously, but at the same time. So, you know, does George Klusker go? Possibly. Possibly, possibly not. It's a different that would be a debate, wouldn't it? Jake Walmore probably will. Yeah. Um, Thomas Gilliam for sure. I mean at the moment, I mean we don't have who else have we got? Well, Soul Moody. Of course. So maybe he'll point a hooker. Yeah, well, Soul Moody is the hooker that was from, so he'll probably make an appearance. I'd say Toby Wilson, stick him in full.
SPEAKER_09I'll upgrade him to first class.
SPEAKER_06Bosch, I mean Bosch's gonna be banging on Pat's door. One and two. Take me to the motherland.
SPEAKER_05Bosch will play.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, he will play. Um, and all of his relatives will be watching, yeah. Um, so uh Bosch and then I mean Jimmy, I'd imagine Jimmy will go because we need leaders.
SPEAKER_09We do need we're gonna take like Adj, Steve. Well, that's a good question. And and Pedro?
SPEAKER_06I do I don't think they'll take not on match. My worry with them, then they wouldn't have played for like two weeks, and then we're like asking them to play against Exeter. You know what I mean? It's like there isn't it's all very well resting players, but you've also got to keep game time. Yeah, I think maybe half a game, and then so but then I say it's actually a really difficult selection dilemma, actually. I've got to say, I wouldn't part of me thinks Pedro, no, but then like we've paid him a lot of money to play rugby for us. We want to see him, but well, that's what Pat gets paid for. So yeah. Now Joe Owen will go for sure, I think. Harry Wells. I mean, he might I think you know, three months ago he was wondering what he was doing. Now he's on a plane to Cape Town. I I would put him in there. I thought he was exactly you know, to get stuck in with the he's tried.
SPEAKER_05I mean, he he's he's an experienced player, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Ben Grondona, give him another game at eight. Yeah. Um yeah, I reckon he'll put Fitz will go, but maybe could be on the bench again because he needs some leaders. I just wonder about Stevie. Stevie and Adj, it might be worth giving them a stuff again, and then they'd be um but just keep him somehow. I don't know. It'd be I think it's gonna be an interesting selection. And I think given the fact we was useless, our prediction last week, we're not really bothering. Um and we don't really I mean the irony of this Champions Cup is we did so well in the group games last year, yeah, and then ended up with a knockout against Toulouse. It's like, why what's the point anymore? Like, let's just do what we do and then like maybe if we see if we qualify it would be like we come third and end up you know playing Scarlet or something like that, and it's like and then we get a home game, exactly. Because I mean we've so up for it, we're playing then complete potluck. Yeah, I do know what I've my research so poor I can't remember, apart from Bordeaux, Stormers. Who else is Munster? We've got Munster at home, who else is in our December, isn't it? But who else is in the group? Munster, um Scarlet uh Munster Bordeaux, Stormers, and oh Rassing. Of course, we're away in Paris in January. I mean, there's some good sides in that, you know. So that's a tough actually, isn't it? We what we don't want, we don't want to get knocked out of both cups in the last game, do we? I think I think and I'm just speaking for myself, but everybody, that as long as we get into some sort of knockout, that'll do. That'll do that. That'll do us. That'll do pig. We we've got we've got a we're aiming for the Prem. And Pat said it, win the Prem. He didn't say win the Champions Cup, did he?
SPEAKER_05He didn't.
SPEAKER_06No. Knockout stages would be good.
SPEAKER_09Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Anything else, boys? Because on that we've got no shout-outs and no goats. We've done the the the goat against us, I think is enough. Um and I I didn't really push shout-outs this week, and people have sent the odd thing, like JP Holden sent another poem. So if people are interested in poetry, go to our Twitter feed and you'll see it. Um the Hambleys have been a bit quiet. Busy week then. I think they know there's competition. Yeah, maybe they've they've they've they've they've um maybe they've uh JP Holden could be he could be climbing. Like we did at the Saturday, they cracked under the pressure of the uh JP Holden's like poetic box kicking. It's been like it's been destroyed. The Hamley's like catching their high poetic high ball is being feeling they'll come back. I'm trying to come back strong come back strong.
SPEAKER_09Anyway, so so am I right? There's uh a fan's taking the the flag, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Flag to South Africa, yeah, yeah, massive. So Kane Goodman, who's a big cheese in the Kane Facebook group, he looks like Lee, but he's about half size, but twice as yeah, he um he is taking the flag and he is gonna send me updates. He said, I'm not gonna post it, I'm just gonna send you pictures every time I get the flag somewhere.
SPEAKER_05He's got a lot to live up to, Mike. John Johnny Wood. Oh, that book, yeah. But Kane was there.
SPEAKER_06So Kane has reflected on Johnny Wood's performance. He's gonna work harder, he's gonna do and so I mean I'm bigging him up because he has talked a great game. I met him after the Saints game, he was loving it, he's took the flag. He could almost it could go two ways, it could be brilliant, or he's already lost it before he gets to the airport. We could get another maze.
SPEAKER_09He had that look about him that he could potentially have lost the flag. Well, you know, Pete, it's it's maybe about time we got a second flag. It's going, you know, it's it's a bit bit bad now, isn't it?
SPEAKER_06I don't think you can't launder it. So we'll we'll look I'm looking forward to uh to you saying he's he's more like me then.
SPEAKER_09Well, yeah, we I mean we wish uh every fan is going to South Africa this weekend well. Um safe travels and in and enjoy it. It'd be lovely and warm, you know, it'd be nice and warm down there, won't it?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and we might if you are out there and and you know send us a few sound bites, we'd love that sound bites, we like that.
SPEAKER_09Or a little match report, we'd really like that.
SPEAKER_06Well, on that note, boys, I think we'll finish. So I keep clicking the pen. Sorry about that, because I can't help for that. There's gonna be a goat about the pen. I'm clicking the pen. So um everyone, have a good have a good week. Stay safe, and one, two, three, up for the pen.
Podcasts we love
Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.
Two Woods Four Quarters 🃏
Two Woods Four Quarters
Fezcast - The Saracens Supporters Podcast
Fezcast (SSA)
The Rolling Maul
David and Millie
The Shark Tank | A Sale Sharks Podcast
The Shark Tank Podcast
Bath Rugby Plug
Bath Rugby Plug
Tribe Talking
Tribe Talking
The Telegraph Rugby Podcast
The Telegraph
The Ruck
The Times
Craggy Rugby podcast
Craggy Rugby