Ep 208 - Dunnie's off - when is an exhibition not an exhibition - women lose to Sarries - and listener loose ends tied up

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

I'm James Dumman and you're listening to Bears Beyond the Gate. You're listening to Bears Beyond the Gate, a Bristol Bears podcast made by fans for fans. With three friends who love the club, the game, and all things bears. Well, boys, uh, we are actually away from our spiritual home. We're slumming it. We're slumming it. We've gone budget. Um we're back in, well, my house tonight, and we haven't got any of our brand new equipment. We literally sat around a little table with three or four books, a box, and the mobile recorder recorder right on the top. But um we weren't sure we were gonna do a pod, but we decided we needed to do one tonight, and then we found out that there was some comedy thing going on at the Bristol Beer Factory, so we've had to go back to our roots.

SPEAKER_03: 0:51

Which is it's nice though, I like it. I mean, asn't on a positive score.

SPEAKER_05: 0:54

Any any pants on a radiator?

SPEAKER_03: 0:56

Well, I don't know what that is, but I'm not gonna get too close to it. It doesn't look like pee.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00

Those are actually my pajama shorts. Well, you know what it's like now, boys, with the winter coming in. Yeah, yeah. When you do the washing, you've got to sit down. We're a we're a family of four. Needs must, mate. We get it, we get it. And also we haven't had to sit up for hours. We haven't had to sit up for hours. And uh we haven't had to do the sort of small talk with Lewis to just make sure he remembers to give us the beers and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21

Well, that's the downside. We've got no we've had to buy our own beers, haven't we?

SPEAKER_02: 1:25

Which is uh And you'll notice that the room's changed a little bit. We've now got a proper work desk behind us.

SPEAKER_05: 1:30

Um, so I'm drinking an uh a competitor's beer.

SPEAKER_02: 1:34

Apologies. I think you sh well I think when you're away from the beer factory. When you're away from home open season, yeah, um, but yeah, we this is uh we're a little bit more cramped because we my daughter started a GCSE's this year and sh she needed a sort of study area, so we've changed it into it. But you know, it feels good. But anyway, boys, we decided to do a pod. It's always difficult this time of year, isn't it? Because the Prem finishes, then there's a bit of Prem cut, then we we have our exhibition game, um, then there's a bit of a break, and then you know the Prem doesn't restart until well, it's 23rd Saturday, the 28th. No, it's later of November. But we we did have some terrible, terrible news in the week that meant we really, really felt we needed to get together and have an emergency pod. Well, we needed a therapy session after that news, didn't we? It was therapy, and of course, a lot of you boys out there and and girls and girls as well, sorry. I don't know what came over me there. And men and men and women and all sorts, and anybody, and anyone who's gender neutral, and probably a few there's probably a few cats and dogs out there that listen as well.

SPEAKER_03: 2:38

And maybe uh is it Free Eye Atlas, maybe that is a couple of Indians on board as well who listen.

SPEAKER_02: 2:44

But for all of our millions of listeners, of course, I guess if you do listen to the pod regularly, you'll know what we're talking about. It was a rumour a few weeks ago, we hoped it wasn't true, but now it's all come out in the the press and even now officially come out that well, I go as far to say that almost best friend of the pod, um James Dunn, is gonna be leaving Bristol Bears, his hometown club, at the end of the year. And I think if there is anyone out there that hasn't heard the news or hasn't seen any of the detail, I think I think it we owe it to Dunny to read to read his statement that he uh he he wrote for the fans. So here it goes. It goes, Dear Bristol Bears fans, that's us, boys, yeah, and loads of other people. Um I will I'm s I was a little bit disappointed he didn't say dear Bears fans and the pod boys, but I'll let him off because it's a big moment. There's still time. And he said, I will be leaving Bristol at the end of the season, a club that I've grown up with, from coming through the academy to running out at Ashton Gate. Bears has shaped me as a player and a person. I'm grateful to every teammate, staff member, and coach who believed in me, and to Pat for giving me the opportunity to establish myself in the Premiership. It's a brilliant group of boys here, and I'm grateful to call them mates. Thanks to Steve Lansdowne and his family for what he has done for our club. Being a homegrown player at Bristol has been an honour, and I have never taken it for granted. But life is also about growth, and that means stepping into the unknown. For me personally, this has been one of the hardest decisions I've ever made. But it's time for a new chapter. I've changed a lot during my time here. Losing my dad and overcoming many challenges has given me the perspective to go and test myself in a different environment and experience life in a new city, having spent my life here in the West Country. To the fans at Ashton Gate, you've been incredible. You've always supported me and my family, and it's given me memories I will always treasure. Bristol will always be home, and I have no doubt that the club will continue to go from strength to strength to strength. We still have so much to achieve this season, and I'm determined to leave with silverware. Once a bear, always a bear, James Dunn.

SPEAKER_01: 5:02

True. Absolutely true. Well boys, I'm gonna pass it over to you. Do you want to go first, Lee, or Lee? What are you?

SPEAKER_03: 5:09

Uh I mean, first of all, obviously, speaking for all three of us, we're we're all absolutely gutted that Dunny's gone or going. Um but I have to admire and respect his decision. I think that you know he's putting himself outside the box and outside of his comfort zone, and I think in any walk of life, that's a really tough thing to do. It takes a lot of courage, it takes a lot of guts and determination, and I think that I mean there's gonna be no as as gutted as as we are to to see him go, there's gonna be no bigger supporters of James Don than the three of us, is there? And I'm gonna love seeing him in a albeit in a quince shirt, but I'm gonna love seeing him play, and I'm gonna love seeing him smash the opposition. So gutted, yes, but I can respect his decision and um I think we're fully behind him, aren't we? Miles?

SPEAKER_05: 6:06

Yeah, I I might reiterate, I feel like we're I feel like we were in mourning as a group of lads, aren't we? You know, we've learned to respect, you know, James Dunn as a player, a friend, you know, and a contributor to our podcast over the last year. Uh, and he was ultimately an absolute top, top bloke, amazing player, and the growth we've seen him come from the academy to first team to that try at Bath at the rank in the semifinal last year, just topped it off. A true Bristolian, as he said, you know, it it's so tough for him to leave a club that he's just grown up with, and it's so hard to move on to the next chapter completely unknown to him. But we wish him the we wish him well. We hope that he progresses, you know, and and Quinn's no doubt will, you know, grow him as a player and ultimately, you know, might get on the international stage, but we're absolutely gutted. But he goes with goes with our blessing, or of course.

SPEAKER_02: 7:04

Yeah, he yeah, he needs our blessing. Yeah, he needs absolutely. Um I'll add to that. I mean, I remember Lee saying many pods ago we were discussing a team selection, and I think it was just after he'd come back from Jersey. And I remember you specifically saying, uh, I think James Dunn would be good to get in the side. And it was when we hadn't really, we didn't know much about him, he'd been an Academy boy. And I do remember you saying that, and you had a you had seen something in him, and you said we need you know we need to get Dunny in the side, or James Dunn in the side, and then he's done he's got over fifty appearances in the the heat of battle in the premiership, and including a massive shift at Claremont, which which I think proves what a great player he is already and what a player he can be. And obviously, with our conversations with Dunny, uh we were very lucky to to get him to come and talk to us on the pod twice. And one of the things he was very clear about is that he had a very specific role in the team, which was to do the filthy stuff, which was to get up, hit Rux, which was to stop the opposition playing. And he said that you know he was he Bats did the the line-out calling, and that was something he wanted to develop and learn, but he was in charge of mall defence, and my mole defence has been something that has been really, really good. So this is a guy who is not he's not got potential, the guy is already there, um, and you know, he is going to and grow and develop, like he said. And we did send him a personal message on our WhatsApp, on our um Instagram, because that's how we contact him most of time, and he generally replies. And and we send him a little message, just basically off saying, you know, we are gutted, we understand what you're saying, you know, we really do. We really think it's a real shame that a brist a really good Bristolian player is leaving the club. Yeah, of course. And he said, Thank you guys, been an absolute pleasure and not done yet. Would be nice to leave on a hive. I'm still available for the pod, even when I'm in London. Let's grab a pint at the next home prem game. It sounds good to us. That is the measure of the guy. I mean, yeah, he doesn't have to say that to us. We're just three blokes in having a middle-aged crisis and running a podcast. James Dunn is 25 years old, he's got he's a serious rugby player, but he he he treated us like with real respect, and we we respect him for that as well. Um yeah. Well let's talk about the elephant in the room now then.

SPEAKER_03: 9:24

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Because we've done all the nicer now. Yeah, agree. Now, there's one issue which I think sticks in the in the mind for me, and it was very early in well, right at the beginning, the genesis of Pat Lamb ring, is that he wanted to bring in young Bristolian players, right, which will eventually go on and play for England. Yeah, we're all agreed on that. So the thing that really sticks in my crawl is the fact now we've we've lost a Bristolian player, right? We've lost a guy whose heart and soul was blew in my oops, we all agree. Um, as much as we've got uh Rabilio in the team, or even Rubiolo, or the same thing. I'm just pronouncing it like Gareth Chilcott would. Sorry, Coochie.

SPEAKER_02: 10:16

I thought I thought Chilcott was in the room then. I've actually I've never seen you and Chilcott in a root.

SPEAKER_03: 10:23

And it's sorry. But yeah, it's it it it's a bugbearer of mine. The fact is we've lost one of our own, and and he is one of our own. I think it you know some some departures really do it quite hard, and this one I think hit all three of us quite badly.

SPEAKER_05: 10:39

I think right. I think I think amazing, you know, it's like we're not even halfway through the season, but this has hit us personally and professionally, you know, out of all the departures we see at the end of the season. Yeah, we know players come and go, their contracts end, etc. But to lose such a store in in Bristol, um, you're absolutely right. You know, the the rhetoric that's been given to fans, I mean it's there's no lie, is it, that we we promote Bristoleans, we want Bristolians to win caps, 100 caps for England. Um, and I know the England is tight as a back row at the moment, but you know, if he feels that to to move on and progress his game in another club is the only way of doing that, fair play to him, but I'm just absolutely gutted that you know, we're not potentially, we don't know, that willing to match the offer that Quinn's have given him. I mean, that we've decided to reduce our squad, to reduce the amount we pay in the cap, uh, and lose such a brilliant player.

SPEAKER_02: 11:38

Well, I think you make a really good point there, Miles, and this is the problem sometimes with the kind of rhetoric and the reality is that it's a good strat line when you're rebranding the club, building the club from nothing, which is essentially what happened after 2019. And um but there is a reality, there is a market reality that uh that money does talk a lot of the time. And and you know, we know that that Dunny said to us that you know there are he knows there are certain certain sort of points where locks are in locks are in demand and they have a certain value. And I and I think that it we don't know clearly, we have no idea what the numbers or anything are. But if Saracens have offered, oh Saracens always God, he wouldn't have gone there, I know that for a fact. But if Quince had he wouldn't have gone there for anything, but Quinn's had offered him something, he I assume this is the way negotiations work, um, bears, you know, he makes it aware what the offer is. And and whatever that is, clearly we haven't given him an offer that will make him uh want to deny the offer. So so it is unfortunately, and and that's nothing wrong with that, because that's that's market forces, that's capitalism. And he's got his you know, he's obviously happy with whatever he's been offered, he's got a you know, he's got a life in it. And and of course you layer on all the things he said because he's looking for opportunity. And one thing we could also say is that it's possible to make it a case for the fact that his opportunity for representative honours has been stymied a little bit by being at Bristol, not because he's there's anything wrong with his game, it's just that Bristol isn't necessarily a seems like a fashionable place to get into AT sports like that. No, and I think there's that element as well, and I mean we've got to respect that as well. So it what I'm saying is that then there's clearly market forces at at play, but and there always is, but it just is a slight disconnect to make all these proclamations about Bristolians, but then at the end of the day, just don't back it up when market forces dictate.

SPEAKER_03: 13:42

No, and and I mean my question then would be like, how can Quinns value Dunny more than we do at Bristol?

SPEAKER_02: 13:50

I mean, if I go back to the market forces argument, I'd they probably say they don't have a good enough second row. We we have Pedro Rubiolo and we have Joe Batley, and we also have Joe Owen who's who's coming through.

SPEAKER_03: 14:01

I mean I think Joe Owen probably is he's probably the guy that Pat Lamb sees for the future. I think we we all know how talented Joe Owen is. Um and he can and he's versatile, which Pat loves as well. He's probably slightly more versatile. So I do agree that's probably had some influence on the decision.

SPEAKER_02: 14:21

From an economic point of view, Joe Owen is is is not on a big contract. He's still and this is the problem every club has is that you develop your homegrown players, and by the definition they're good value because they're homegrown. But at some point, and Dunny was renegotiating a contract, I imagine, from a you know what, a a position of strength. He's he's got 50 appearances, you know, he's an integral part, but there is a limit, I guess, to these things. And and again, you know, if I I'm sure if I was playing devil's advocate, someone would say, Well, we've got a budget and we can't blow the budget. And we've got Rubiolo, we've got Batley, we've got Joe Owen coming through, we've got Paddy Pierce. You know, they it's a constant evolution, and and that is fine, and I hundred percent understand that. We're not naive, but it just is annoying when you kind of associate the idea that there is something slightly special about keeping your own code.

SPEAKER_03: 15:18

And also the evolutions now become like we've strengthened one of our opponents, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_05: 15:26

I absolutely agree, and you're right, and we have decided well not we, the club have decided is to contract their their expenditure and to contract their squad. So is it it's not a good time, surely, to release such a talented player to a club who'll absolutely bring out the best in him, and and you could just you can just see it now, can't you? Him playing at f phenomenally well for Quinn's and and beating Bristol on a on a day and thinking, Well, there we go.

SPEAKER_02: 15:56

But if if he does come back when he comes back to the gate, we know he's that sort of player, whatever he does, he will get he will get an applause. There might be another narrative here, boys. Maybe, maybe he is a secret agent that he's been put out because Pat's thinking we ain't got enough money to win the league, we've got to win silverware. So what we need is a spy, and then so he goes for Harlequins, and then he is playing all these other teams and spying on the other teams for us to uh to give us it. But no, that that was just what I was dreaming when I was daydreaming the other day. Well look, boys, I mean I don't know much else we can say.

SPEAKER_05: 16:31

I think I think we've we've we've done that, yes.

SPEAKER_03: 16:34

Well, we all say, Dunny, I know you'd be listening to this, and we all love you lots, mate, and not just the three of us in this room, but you know, there's another 15,000 supporters out there and bear assured, and we're all collectively gutted to see you go. But we do wish you all the best, and you know, we're gonna enjoy watching you um doing what you do, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 16:57

And uh and we'll see you down the stoop at some point. Um boys, I've I've got a few tissues if you want them. Just or should we just have a moment? Well, they they they look used to being enough. We need those. Well no, I mean, joking aside, we we don't want to be you've got 50 birds. We have. I I meant to say, boys, I've got the bag of the bag of tissues.

SPEAKER_00: 17:17

What are we doing with these though?

SPEAKER_02: 17:19

I just realised that we were waiting for this moment.

SPEAKER_00: 17:21

There is this.

SPEAKER_02: 17:22

This is the rustle. Now, I feel like this is a community that if anybody is feeling upset out there, like us about Dunny, get in touch with me and I will somehow find a way to get you a previous hand so that you can wipe the bowl. We were making it for this moment, yeah. You know what I'm saying? I've still got it here, boys.

SPEAKER_00: 17:43

I've still got Dunny's away shirt, his European shirt.

SPEAKER_05: 17:46

Has it not been collected yet?

SPEAKER_00: 17:48

Nobody's claimed it yet. And I have to have a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02: 17:50

Well, that's got up in value, hasn't it? It might be have to be a re-raffle, and maybe we maybe we should do this at the end of the season. If I will call the guy that won it, I haven't actually genuinely contacted him, but he hasn't contacted me, so he obviously hasn't been listening to the last few pods. But if he doesn't want it, then maybe just maybe we'll we could talk to Daddy about this as it's it's sort of farewell, we might be able to do something where he gives it away in person and so on. So uh there you go. I finally found a use to the hankies, right? Wait, we've got to cure ourselves out there across the club. Well, on the positive, yeah, got well on the positive side. I mean, there has been some rugby. It it obviously we all know that it's it's this this block of premiership finished that we we talked about in the last pod. We thought that three from five was a pretty good turn. Yeah, and given the injuries and given the fact that the two away games we lost were the two probably the two hardest, yeah, maybe apart from Sale, but uh yeah, Saracens and Bath. So I think we we were pretty happy. I think we also felt in some ways it's quite a good time for some of our our injury our injury people to get fit again, but of course there was still a couple of games there. We've had one Prem Cup game against Bath and we've had a game against Argentina. So I thought we'd just quickly whip through those two games. The first one, Miles, was the on the back of losing 4015, I think it was in the Prairie at Bath then very quickly welcomed them, as it were, to the gate. Um again it was a different sort of game. Both teams had put out a lot of Academy players, which is what's expected for these Premier Cup games. Um but Bath put out, I would say, more first team players than we did. So they had Barbary playing, they had Chris Harris, they had Tom de Glanville, they had some pretty deep they had Ewan Richards, who's kind of academy, but he's about as good as most of their first team. They had a strong side. We had Jack Bates was playing, um, we had Graham Slaughter, we had a few. Oh, Grey was was on the bench for that as well. So we had a few, but we did also put out a lot of our youngsters, and that that in the spirit of the competition. We lost 1949. Yeah. It was a I mean, it was the old classic tough day at the office. I mean, me and Miles started by watching it in the the in the Dolmen, um, which was but the trouble is you see too much in the Dolman and you're thinking I don't know how to watch it. And uh anyway, so we then it wasn't because there was a few spare seats, we migrated back to the down to the landstand, and we're about three rows back, and it's a completely different experience watching the game three rows back in the lands down. You don't really see what's going on, you can't really see the pattern of the space, but you do really feel the c collision.

SPEAKER_05: 20:41

Yeah, you feel you feel the size of the players and you'd be the collision, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02: 20:45

It just reinforced that they were just a stronger side, they're their first team players. I mean, Barbary sadly went off injured and and got quite a big round of applause from Bears Masters. Yeah, because he is a good player and he'd been rampaging and he he'd rampaged through and he he did something to his hand, he was punching the ground a bit like AJ did. He knew he'd done something to his head. He's had a lot of injuries. He got tackled, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 21:06

Rightly so, he got tackled from behind and and slammed down, and I I think that's injury, he'll be out for a yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 21:13

And I and I just think it's hard to say it, but it's true that their academy are just better than our academy at the moment. And that's not a that's not a subjective thing, that's an objective fact, because they've they've really developed it and they've spent a lot of money. And and if you talk to our academy manager, he'll tell you how much how big their catchment area is compared to ours. Well, we know that. So, in some ways, although I've always said this about Prem Cup games, haven't I, boys, that you know, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. It's a no jeopardy game. And it felt a bit like that. It was it was a bit of a disappointment that we didn't quite I mean, Boschoff played. We like he played well, I thought, Aidan Boschoff. We had the bearless Bevan, the the Welsh guy that's come in, scum off. He he came on, he played alright, and we had Victor Wursnip in the uh play in the first name on the team sheet. I mean I've got to say, Victor Wursnip is an 18, I think he's 18-year-old, Clifton College. He looks swag, he's got a swagger about him, and he's he's uh it was a tough. I think he was up against Harrison, he was up against Will Butt, who is no mug. Nah. He's uh and he doesn't make the bar thirsty, but Will Butt is a big unit. Um that's another classic surname as well. I mean, it was Wersnip against Butt. But but I mean it's like the sort of thing you can imagine saying. I mean, I think I said to my dad, he I used to my dad said he's 87, said, Where do you go? I said, Oh, I went to see uh went to see uh Bristol Play Bath in the Prem Cup. You in the Prem Cup? I said, Well, there was a few young lads, there was Victor Wursnip.

SPEAKER_00: 22:39

What parsnip, you say? I said, No, Dad, Victor Worsnip.

SPEAKER_02: 22:44

You know, it's a sort of sort of name that old people are gonna get wrong. And Miles was a little bit like, oh Victor Miles was being a bit rude, actually, during the game. No, during the game he was.

SPEAKER_00: 22:54

And he was going, Victor, who calls that son Victor? This is someone called Miles saying that anyway.

SPEAKER_05: 23:00

Anyway, there was an excuse back in the seven seas, mate.

SPEAKER_02: 23:03

That's the relying of saying. In your credit, then in the Argentinian game, which came back in a minute, he played again, he played really well because he scored his debut try. Yeah. Miles was eating. I mean, he had his hat and he was eating it.

SPEAKER_05: 23:16

Eating it.

SPEAKER_02: 23:16

So it's a pie. So I tell you, Miles, is there anything you want to add for that Prem Cup game?

SPEAKER_05: 23:21

Not really. It was a bit chastening for the young lads, wasn't it? You're right, they had a spark, they had a little bit of sparkle of their Prem team that which is just a little bit better than ours. But it was you so it was a learning curve for the young lads, a lot of Academy lads in, and I thought they put up a well, they didn't put up a fight to a certain extent, um, but I don't think you read too much into it. Um no team's gonna be.

SPEAKER_02: 23:43

The only other thing was it was the return of Matt Prothero at Full. Of course. And I've got to say, I I didn't really recognise him at all. He looked like a bit put on a bit of timber. Well, I know he just looked a bit older, which clearly is a bit older, but I just seem to remember this kind of flowing blonde hair, like sort of streaking down the wit wing, scoring amazing tries. And he he he just looked older. He just looked and he's been out in we obviously went back to Ospreys, and I think he was out in New Zealand. Yeah, I think he said he had a bit of kind of you know, he had a bit of three-day stubble, so I'm sure he hadn't shaved when he played for us before, and he had three-day stubble, and he looked good. He looked good, and and um, you know, actually I think what position did he play? Well he played fullback for the Prem Card. But then we'll come on to the the Argentina game. He he played he played ten for the Argentinian game, played well. So yeah, it was nice to see Prothero back, and he he played well to be fair. Yeah, good lad. So so yeah, I mean I don't know what more to say about that. I mean I think it was a it was a it's a shame we lost. I mean I think we've lost we've lost two one one now and we've got one more game against Chiefs. We'll see. That's in not next week, the week after I we'll see what happens. I don't know whether we're gonna get through to the the plu the knockout. It would be quite nice, because I guess from an academy point of view, if you can get at least one more game, it's another bit of game to get the guns out.

SPEAKER_03: 24:59

Yeah, but let's face it, that's all it is. That the competition is just trying to get some game time for for the extra.

SPEAKER_02: 25:07

I mean, we've discussed the Prem Cup, uh whether it was value in it. I mean, obviously it was a season ticket game, they have to make them season ticket games because otherwise there aren't that many games. And I think for us, me and Miles walking down from you know ten minutes from home, it's fine. I I imagine if you live up in you know, I don't know, Downend or North Bristol and or Chippinsod. You may not like that. Or Sarah Beaumont, if you live down in Devon or something like that. You know, it's not it's not quite as a big an incentive to come up, but but it is what it is, I think. It's one of the but yeah, yeah. It did lead us on nicely to Friday. The game this Friday night, yeah. Which was the uh which was the fifth in our series of exhibition games games. And well, I mean it was it was a pretty miserable night, it was raining. The team that we put out was pretty similar to the Prem Cup team. We had Jack Bates again was playing outside centre as a bit of quality. Yeah, we've got it. Graham Slaw was playing Joe Owen captained Joe Owen captains, um Victor Wursnip was back at centre. Um we had Prothero went uh 10. Um changes on the outside. We had a few changes on the bents, and we had young Evan Morris, I think, on the wing, one wing. We had Aidan Boschoff on the other wing. We had a couple of under 18 characters. Under 18 academies, yeah. Josh Catwin, and then we had we had some some real youth on the on the on the bench. And and yeah, they p they put up a pretty good show against a pretty physical looking Argentinian side, who I understand would mainly pick from the Argentinian League. There's a fledgling league, so they're picked to get them experienced, but they they look pretty solid. Pretty experience to me. Unlike I think our boys played a lot better against them than they did against Bath in the Premier Cup game. But maybe the Bath team were better than Argentinians, I don't know. Um, and you know, they they they we scored first actually, rolling ball. Thomas William was playing hooker two and actually two games. He looks like a good academy prospect coming up at Hooker, scored, but we scored first, and then after that didn't really score again.

SPEAKER_05: 27:11

Right, there was an encouraging start, but you know, you know, you look at the size of the some of those Argentinians, they've been eating a lot of beef. The f the the whole pack looked absolutely huge. Um, and you're right, that Union, you think outside of the first team 23, they are the next 23, so they are, you know, they are no mugs, they're gonna put in a tough game. You said you know, they play in a league in in Argentina, which is competitive, so we should have expected probably a very good squad. Um, and we decided as a club to put out Academy and some under 18s, um, and at the end of the day they got schooled, but that's no disrespect to the effort they put in, which was 110%.

SPEAKER_03: 27:55

But I mean, it does lead us on to discuss it, and Lee, you want to say something. I just want to say, can we stop calling them exhibition games now? Well, I think I'm gonna use a snooker analogy to this, right? Yeah, yeah. When we want exhibition games, we want to see Jimmy White, we want to see O'Sullivan, we want to see Alex Higgins doing Alex. Yes, John Virgo doing trick shops. We just want a game of rugby, almost like a barbarian style. Let's just go for it rugby games. Okay. We don't want to see Terry Griffiths do we?

SPEAKER_02: 28:26

No. No. I mean, we st by the look of a couple of those RGs, we did see Bill Wurbenek. He was down at three. And actually, their fly off wasn't too often. But no, but Lee makes a you make a really good point. Okay, the weather that option.

SPEAKER_05: 28:43

The weather was poor, the crowd was really, really poor on Friday night. So I guess, you know, ultimately the question we're saying is there's three podcasters and and 10,000 season ticket holders. Is this exhibition during the situations now is it dead in the water? What do we think?

SPEAKER_02: 29:02

I mean, this is I wrote a post article for this, and and I was it got me thinking because I did my research, and basically we've done five exhibition games, and these were sold brilliantly, right? You know, quite soon after we came out of lockdown. And the idea is that there's only ten teams in the league. We we have to offer more to season ticket holders, and we also want to grow the game. We get the principle, we want to get it. The principle's brilliant, and it started brilliantly with South Africa. That was class. And you know what? I look back at their lineup, they had Thomas Detoyd playing for them, they had the guy that I can't pronounce his name, but their new Wonder Fly Half was playing on that night. They had Marco Van Staden playing that night, they had some serious players who'd gone through. Now, I looked to our team, and we had a fully loaded first team. It it was it wasn't all a first team, but every single player was Joycey and Bats were playing. Well, I remember when Bats we scored a try, and Bats just like Lahina was playing, Jan Thomas was playing, but it the But I mean the um the Cash Point was playing. Brian Byrne was playing. Laheef was playing. Um we had Harding was playing. Of course, this was early in his development, but he still he was still a clearly a very Steve Louitou was playing, he Jake Heenum was playing, we had um uh Will Porter was Shady was playing.

SPEAKER_03: 30:20

We we can say though, I mean obviously we couldn't that we couldn't put a team out like that.

SPEAKER_02: 30:24

No, no, no, but this is my point. I'm not I'm not criticized you know it was conceived as an exhibition and it was an exhibition. Now for many reasons since. So since then, we then played the Crusaders and they they came and did the hacker. I don't know if you remember, it was like all in the midst. We couldn't see it. But that was iconic, yeah, and they beat us quite easily. We then had the Australia one last year that wasn't season ticket, but it was a ten or two. It was a ten or draw. Ironically, we had a reasonable side out, but we didn't have a you know, we were hamstrung a little bit by international call-ups. And that was a ten-o-draw, so it wasn't really an exhibition, it was kind of like a cup, it was just a kind of league game, and then we then had the Queens and Reds, and we know the club Tom Tainton has been on this pod and said that that was a f that went wrong, that was all wrong. But then, you know, the problem was we had the the Argentinian one, and it was a kind of let's reboot this exhibition idea. Um, and it was a good idea, and it did sound like a good idea because we have the connections with the Pumas, with all of our but you know, me and you are there, Miles, and and and it's a fact to say there weren't very many people there, there were many empty seats. That means that season ticket holders didn't go and not many people bought tickets.

SPEAKER_03: 31:37

Now, clearly we know why that is. Yeah, I mean I don't play. I can tell you my point of view for that, is because it's it wasn't interesting. I didn't go to that game, I had no interest whatsoever in going to that game. And that was because it it it wasn't it wasn't any of any interest to me whatsoever. And I think that I can speak from the people who didn't go. Yeah, I mean f full respect, and we do appreciate the club are trying to do they're trying to shift things and they're trying to to generate interest. But for me, uh that's not the way for them to do it. Tom Tengott is great looking outside the box. Let's let's get a corridor team down to us.

SPEAKER_02: 32:18

Yeah, I think and I think I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03: 32:20

Let's do a double error, let's go to I think more points.

SPEAKER_02: 32:22

Hey, let's go to the arms park. Yeah. Let's do a double error. Let's go to let's go to the principality stadium. Oh wait, we've already But no, I mean what we're trying to say here is that it's like it was a great idea that maybe has now run its course. I think so. But I know what they still need to do something for season ticket holders. Now, I think it's a good opportunity to reboot that and and look at something different, and that's a great idea, like look at some sort of you know, and you know, the other a Bears kind of or Welsh team or whatever, and and call it an exhibition and then play it like an exhibition. But the other thing that annoyed me about um uh Friday was that we had Sarah Cox refing, and Sarah Cox is a premiership ref, but it was she was refing like she was being marked. Yeah. So she was br she brandished a couple of yellows, at least. And you're like, we don't want to see and also the game. She shouldn't even be taking any cards out on the and also and then it goes back to your really good point a few um pods ago about about thinking about the personality of the ref for the game. So we were saying that Tempo was a little bit, you know, he he was a bit tense about the Bath game, and he a Luke Pierce would have managed that game much better. Now, it's no disrespect to Sarah Cox, but maybe a kind of some uh somebody with all you know who've been a bit more experienced, he's quite good at talking lads, would have said, look, lads, let's stop a bit of this side entry now. Come on, let's just do this properly. I mean the other thing that slightly disappointed me was that we we box kicked it more than I've ever seen as box kick it for about a year. Now, they may be playing to the conditions, but it's like that's not really getting me that excited.

SPEAKER_03: 33:56

So you did get a bit of Terry Griffiths. Yeah, yeah, we didn't know.

SPEAKER_02: 34:00

We got a bit of Joe Davis, you remember Joe Davis all in black and white. It suddenly went black and white. But the point I'm trying to make is that we we really understand, we it it I actually enjoyed the night, but but and we and then in hindsight, a lot of people say, Oh, it's great to see the hit out for the boys. And it was great to see it, but that wasn't the reason why that expensive game was put on. And we had a context is difficult, lots of injuries. We've you know, we had ridiculous people getting called up for international. Toby Fricker got called up for the USA and he's on loan. I know, yeah. And we had like the you know, Luca went out with the Georgians, and then Moroney is right. And then Moroney gets picked for the Argentina. Ironically, because he's played two good games for us and played well for the barbarians, and it's all our own fault. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, and I tried to get this across in the post, it wasn't a criticism, but I'm just saying it feels like when I what you know it's run its course, but we we we're not saying don't do something. Let's have another let's have an open and honest discussion about other opportunities.

SPEAKER_03: 34:56

No, and you you you know, you kindly let us read the post before you sent it out and asked for opinions. And I I thought it was really well balanced. I thought you put all the key points in that you needed to. And I think Tom Tainton, if he reads that tomorrow in the post, I think he he probably hold his hands up and say, like, that was yeah, we we well he's already agreed that there's mistakes have been made. Um and I think that it was it was really well written, mate. You're not criticising the club at all. What we were saying is like maybe a different idea in our future.

SPEAKER_05: 35:26

Okay, well yeah, the the innovation that I think that Tom's bringing is fantastic, and he and he said that to us on the Pardon fans, and he's great. He's a he's a young CEO and we love it. Um but I think you're right, he's inherited potentially this fixture, hasn't he? The the the exhibition game. And I think you're right, it's run its course in its current format.

SPEAKER_03: 35:46

Well, I think we all agree that's dining out on the South African night. No, no, it ain't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_05: 35:52

So something needs to change, you know. You a forum, it's like maybe get fans engaged. What would you like to see?

SPEAKER_06: 35:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 35:58

If you if you had it maybe outsized of the season ticket, and and then pay-per-view, but you've got to put something in that pay-per-view that fans will come and see. Let's put it out to our listeners then, Miles.

SPEAKER_03: 36:09

What do our listeners think? Because it would be uh we've got some brilliant, really intelligent listeners, and it would be great to see what their thoughts are. Because we need a game.

SPEAKER_02: 36:18

Yeah, it's still gonna be only nine home games and two Prem Cup home games and two European ones. There has to be something.

SPEAKER_05: 36:25

But so But you know, for we've met some players up this afternoon at Shahlstreet Park, uh, some types of players, some listeners, etc. Uh I think they get we are a competitive price season ticket. We all know that, and we really appreciate it. But potentially don't fill the gaps with games like this that don't mean anything, the result is poor, and some innovation, you know, uh you're right. Let let's get let's get some ideas together and see what we can fill. Other clubs have done nothing at all, have they? Yeah, yeah. And they've charged the same price for their season ticket. Yeah. And we're really grateful that we've we've we've kept the season ticket hold at the price the same, but something needs to change on this innovation.

SPEAKER_02: 37:05

And especially if you know you're running a small squad like we knew, yeah, and you know there's autumn internationals, and it seems to be more nations seem to be playing all at the same time. It was always going to be a struggle together. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03: 37:16

Well, can I can I just make a kind of side point? Yeah, I did read that there's there was a few supporters and really not very happy about Pat Lange using Fitzardin and Yancey for the bar bars as well. And Maroni, yeah. But obviously, you know it's a it's a tough one, isn't it? Because I think if you're looking at with your with your hoops on and they're thinking we just can't have any of these guys injured. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02: 37:47

Yeah, and I I mean I think that was one of those ones that it all turned out well in the end. None of them got injured. And I don't think, and of course, on the back of that, Fitzy's now got an England acquaintan, but I don't think anybody would begrudge. Oh, you've segmented nicely, have you? Yeah, which is so I think we've done the we've done the the exhibition game. Hang on. Oh whoops. Oh anyway, moving on. So yeah, moving on quickly through the agenda. Um yeah, I thus we wanted to say how I mean how good that is that Fitzy's finally got some recognition. Yeah, absolutely. And I think in some ways we need to give Pat a bit of credit that Pat backed him.

SPEAKER_01: 38:24

He did.

SPEAKER_02: 38:24

And you know, it has perhaps made a an impact on the selectors, whoever they are, and they they realise that Fitz is a and I think I think my post article uh from the uh from the one in the the Exeter game where I said that you know he's he's the he's like he's everything you want for a club player, he's a full pro and stuff like that. So um fair play to Fitz, and by all accounts, he was off he was on the bench and came on. I've no idea how well he played. I know Bat scored a try, which is good. And and and just it's what if he never gets anything again, that's recognition of the fact we're talking about a guy who's got a hundred appearances for a premier for a top six, let's call us a top six premiership, top four in the last seasons, premiership club, one of the best, you know, good league, and one of the youngest captains. One of the youngest captains who was playing for Durham Fourths, who hasn't come from a scholarship through a pathway, was picked up because there was something about him, and clearly has proven to Pat. We know what Pat Pat is uh his own man, he saw something in him, he gave him the captaincy over Big Steve, and as you know, and Big Steve would probably give his blessing. So, you know, you don't give a 24-year-old guy the captaincy of a premiership club at the age of 24 if there's nothing about him. So brilliant.

SPEAKER_03: 39:42

Um fair play to fit, and and you know, I hope it's the start of it's only the start of things. And well done bats as well for score and a trial.

SPEAKER_02: 39:50

I mean the bats thing was was brilliant because uh he had to leave the training in the week because we need to congratulate him on his second year. Yeah, yeah. But that's also segues back to the Argentina game, is that Joe Owen was then called in to Bath because they were training at Bath University to train because I guess they needed to fill a bat-sized hole, although Joe Owen's a bit taller, just to kind of have the numbers, and then basically didn't train with the team that played against Argentina and came back. And then that's another thing, you know. We we had a team that was was you know never played together before as well, and that doesn't help the spectacle, even though they played well. So big Joe Owen, well played. And actually, Joe Owen was interviewed afterwards on the socials and spoke very well. He's uh he seems like a really intelligent, articulate sort of guy, and of course, he did hold the flag up at Gloucester with James Dunn.

SPEAKER_01: 40:38

So he he's a hero as well.

SPEAKER_02: 40:41

He's now been sucked into the Bears beyond the game. He's sucked into our next podvic into our universe, and he cannot get away from it. In fact, the next thing we'll find is Joe Owen uh is now leaving the club at the end of the season because Saraces have offered him like loads of money, and he says, I'm I've got it to go, but I just don't want to ever hold that flag again. Um anyway, so anything else to say on the international? I think we've moved on. No, I think we've I suppose the other thing I would say negatively speaking, and I don't know whether he's injured or not, but it seemed very disappointed that Ogre, Gabriel Ogre, didn't appear. Like having played for England A and England in the winter, probably been the most consistent premiership hooker in the first five games in terms of accuracy, tries. I just don't know what's gone on there. No idea.

SPEAKER_05: 41:26

Anyone does know let's know. I mean, we're supremely disappointed that it's always getting never getting called up into the the full A England training squad, isn't it? Ahead of the likes of you know Theo Daniel. Well he got injured, didn't he, as well.

SPEAKER_02: 41:38

But yeah, Blameyre, they got Jamie Blame in there.

SPEAKER_05: 41:41

Right, and then the consistency that he delivers he's much better.

SPEAKER_02: 41:44

Don't understand that. But anyway, if anyone knows that. Anyway, moving on. One more game to quickly talk about was the we went down Shaftsbury Park, didn't we, Miles afternoon? A bit of a whim, we thought we'd go down. Saracens are in town. Marley Packer, plumber from I did drive past and and I did waves to you.

SPEAKER_03: 41:59

Thanks very much.

SPEAKER_02: 42:00

Yeah, all Marley Packer, plumber from Yeovil. It's always good to go and see Saracens.

SPEAKER_03: 42:04

Um, she didn't. No, she stopped.

SPEAKER_02: 42:08

Well, early on there was a massive leak, and our friend Ella Loveybond went straight through their defence. Scored early. First ten minutes, I thought we're gonna hammer Saracens. They were they weren't at the races at all. Turn it around. As is the way, their sort of power play came back in, they scored two quick tries for half-time, came back out. And although, to be fair, the the the girls got back in it, they won a few scrum penalties, they just didn't make their I mean sadly they weren't they weren't really killing the clinic after.

SPEAKER_05: 42:37

The the set piece in the line out didn't they hit the jump uh And that might be as much Saracen's spoiler as it was you know we equally had we had um our Red Roses in Abby Ward and Sarah Vern. They had two or three, didn't they? Just breach uh Zoe Harrison who kicked off the team. So they you know the and Marvel. Yeah so they were a good size. Showed the class, and ultimately I think they they overpowered and looking like they could be top two finishes. They're gonna be fine, yes. I think so.

SPEAKER_02: 43:12

We just didn't get it out to our our our wingers, did we? Billy Millie Wiz and Renika Bonner, when they did get the ball, they would they they had no space. They tried their best. But yeah, good afternoon. We did have a good afternoon. We saw Crutti, we saw Marcus Watts, we saw Stokes, we saw Ness and the Tommy. Yeah, Tom James and Dave Ward. Yeah, and then Dave we saw Dave Ward, but Dave Ward was looking very hassled because he was looking at trying to control his daughter on his own. And he he wasn't watching, he just went inside the clubhouse and he was trying to like keep her busy. We went over and said a quit hello to him, and he was like, Oh, and we said, Oh, it's David, it's the Pud Boys. He's like, Oh yeah, good see you, lads. He said, Yeah, we won't we won't keep you see, you got your hands full. And I thought this is classic, you know, you've got like a work a red roses winner on the pitch, and he's he can't even watch the game because he's trying to keep his little daughter busy and he was struggling, he was sweating like that, and he was like, and then we've all been there. That's what we almost I almost said it we've been there, but I thought that sounds so patronizing. But anyway, it was nice to see Dave again. Yeah, now I mean Anne Tiller having an up and down season, he is a lovely fella. Mostly down, and uh we'll see what happens with that. So, boys, I think we're we're whipping through. I don't want to spend too much time because it was supposed to be a quick one. I've got two more things to do. Yeah, go for it. Um we had a few tidy up a few comments from listeners that we've had over the last couple of weeks. I don't want to read out. But then quickly, EuroShirt was released. Quick, very, very quickly, thoughtsley.

SPEAKER_03: 44:35

Um I don't know if I can pronounce the thoughts on there. Uh I'm not a big fan. Not a big fan. That'll do.

SPEAKER_05: 44:42

Uh Miles? Not for me. I'm not parting with any money. Simple as that. No, I mean it's not unique enough and progressive enough to me to worry about.

SPEAKER_02: 44:50

I quite like it, to be honest. I can see it as a sort of fashionable attire, but my only problem is that given our record in Europe in the last very long, it it's it's 70 quid seems really expensive because you're only gonna like potentially wear it four times. So are you gonna wear it to Scarlet's? Oh, well I might well I'm not gonna buy it, I'm gonna wear my old one. And the other thing is I still like old Euros, yeah. So I've got to beuring it. My point is that I'd rather wear I've got the classic suspension bridge one for a few years. So that's what I'm gonna wear to Scarlet. And me.

SPEAKER_05: 45:22

And we've got by the way, if anyone's listening, if you ever die, put that in your wheel together.

SPEAKER_02: 45:26

Yeah. So so I think it's uh it's it it's fair enough. People, there'll be people who want to buy it and they have to do it. And you know, I I quite like the design. It's a bit like a magic eye sort of painting, wasn't it? You look at it hard enough, you see a picture of uh Pat Lamb comes out. Yeah, spinning a first trophy, yeah. Um couple of other things, then to finish off, had a couple of emails, had one from Dave Rogers, David Rogers, and it links back to his brother. It might be, it could be Kenny's brother. I know, yeah, it could be Kenny's Kenny's uh we could do this all night, it could be Kenny's nephew. Um but he um and he he said, and this links back to the Prem uh the Europe, the Argentinian game. He said, Not sure if you're doing a pod this weekend. We are. I missed the match yesterday. Brackets would have gone if not for local fireworks. It's like even that, he thought about it.

SPEAKER_03: 46:14

It's even a local. I reckon he's he was only talking about sparklers and he's got a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02: 46:20

No offence, no offence, the club, but as it that is an ongoing gag that we will continue to use. Um, but it sounds like it was a good experience for the young guns, correct? Nice to hear Harris, Oli Harris from Yat and RFC, scoring on his debut, which was Miles Wendy's best friends. Why you know about best friends' nephew? It's almost family miles almost, isn't it? I'm still interested in these international friendlies. Hammers have a David is positive and think there is value in them for the club, especially if it ends up as New Zealand one year. And that is the one thing we didn't say. We mentioned. We always said the All Blacks would be the one. It would be. But we missed out on their A team, didn't we? So if Mark maybe I mean I think Tom manages to get it, I don't care whether they put Brizzly Bear out, we will go and watch the All Blacks.

SPEAKER_03: 47:05

Well of course we would. But if I'm going to be totally honest, I don't ever see it. That's a long, long wait at the moment to be as free for a special occasion.

SPEAKER_02: 47:15

Um he did say one thing for you guys to ponder and maybe pressure for next time. I'm not sure we we have got this much pressure. I'd like to see the club use the friendly matches as an opportunity to use the old classic letters instead of numbers would be a great gesture, but a nice one. Probably unlike it. Um but on letters, yeah. I know we had a di discussion about the the uh the letters coming off shirts. Falling off shirts. Yeah, yeah, I remember pre-game. Pre-game. We had John Mags emailed us and said, Great podcasters ever, lads. Thanks. Just to add to your goat about the misspelling or the letters falling off, David Flatman said to me a while back that the kit man at at Bath once purposely left the L of his name on the back of his shirt.

SPEAKER_03: 47:58

I love it. So that was good. Oh, your kit man. Did you say Mags?

SPEAKER_02: 48:03

John Mags. I wonder if he's any relation to Neil. Could be. There's a lot of Mags in Bristol there. Mags is a Bristol surname, isn't he? Um what else do we add? Oh, another good one. You remember me and you got harangued in the beer queue by Andrew Pearson who hadn't owed his shirt. Oh, the shirt. And we've had an ongoing communication with Andrew at aka giant. Well, we had an email last week saying, just a quick one, lads, finally picked up my hair.

SPEAKER_00: 48:30

That's the positivity we need.

SPEAKER_02: 48:33

The letters have come up.

unknown: 48:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 48:36

And it's the wrong size, and apparently it's another another six weeks for the right size to come in. But he said, picked up, we've finally picked up my away shirt just in time for the international break. We'll save it for Northampton at home in late December. So we're pleased for and actually to be fair to me, please for him, but what? Yeah, and then we had one more quite topical one, which was from Dom Somerville. And Dom Somerville, you and me, sat next to him and his wife at the uh big day out at Cardiff. Hi guys, love in the pod. Jimmy's brother. It could be Jimmy's brother. Sorry, I've got to stop doing this. It could be, and he said, hi guys, love in the pod. I can't sing that. Hi.

SPEAKER_03: 49:12

No, I was saying, could you actually do it in Jimmy Somerville's voice? Love in the podcast!

SPEAKER_02: 49:18

Your recent episode, this is a serious one though, following the tough loss to Bath, or he called it the Unwashed, was very therapeutic as I work with a number of their fans. I heard this story from a Gloucester fan who explained how the Unwashed are able to assemble such an amazing squad of stars and remain within the salary contract.

SPEAKER_05: 49:33

A Gloucester fan. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 49:34

Oh, okay. The story was this: you join on a three-year contract in the years one and two, you're paid basic pay. In year three, your salary increases three times the year one marquee rate. So fat Derek, aka Finn Russell, but I think that's a bit harsh because I quite like Finn Russell, and he was very polite when I asked him to do the year. You can like a thing. Would earn three million plus in his last year. So this whole thing about they don't share the contract over the three things, and they somehow balance it out. Um, then allows you to have three marquee players at any one time. So one year you can have some of the three people on three million. Yeah. I've done some digging and there is very little out there. So he's heard this from a mate who knows a mate who's a Gloucester fan, who's who's big, big Andy, who who has got a long, a lifelong deta hate of anybody from bath.

SPEAKER_03: 50:20

But apart from Gloucester fan, I it kind of feels like we're trying to be set up on this. Oh, I feel like when we say no comment, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 50:26

But he does say, Do you have any sources you might be able to confirm?

SPEAKER_01: 50:29

No comment. No comment. And it's this legal of bending the reel, rules, no comment.

SPEAKER_03: 50:34

But but let's but he might not be far from the farm. We've got to corroborate. I know.

SPEAKER_02: 50:40

Anyway, up the bears, he says. Um, and then finally, just one of the we weren't, you know, we were kind of umming and aring about a pod, and then well, should we do it? We got nothing to talk about, although we managed to talk about stuff for quite a while. But we were coming out of the Argentina game, and some guy came up, said, said, Oh, you're the pod guys, aren't you? Bears beyond the gate, someone we've never met before and said, Oh, I love we love listening because we just love just you chatting about rugby, about what we think about, and it's really fun, and we we don't mind doing that it's not polished or whatever. And they had old Red Cliffeans um rugby shirts on, and it was so I said I I said I'd give them a shout out. So it was Gary, and it was little Harry, and it was Big Mike. Big Mike. So Gary, Harry, and Mike, we appreciate you commenting. And and in a way, you were the ones that decided to uh to to stimulate us to do this pod, amongst other things as well. So cheers for that, and then and then loads of other people.

SPEAKER_03: 51:39

Yeah, I mean that's why we do it, isn't it? And then finally On that note, were you gonna say, sorry, just jumping back to what we we're talking about scorers away on December the 6th.

SPEAKER_06: 51:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 51:47

We would love because we all three of us are gonna be there. Yeah, we go, yeah. We cannot wait for that. Yeah. And if there's any their supporters there, come and join us and find us.

SPEAKER_02: 51:58

Let's have a beer or two. Well, we're going early because we're driving up because we've got a travel lodge, haven't we, Mars? We have, yeah. And therefore we were we may well start thinking about this close to the time of of of trying to do a bit of research, finding out somewhere, and we may just say, right, we're gonna be here, because we could go up a bit earlier, we're gonna be here at this place at a certain time, come in, and we can have a sort of bears thing going on. Right, final thing. Robin Handley, uh Hambley won't like this, but there is another I just spelled his name right. Oh, there is this going poet, and it's not Debs from K-Town. There is another poet jostling for laureateship. And this is JP Holden, who had a bit of a pop in the last did an acrostic, but based on listening to stuff that we've said in the pods, has come up with three rhyming poems. The first one is the first one he says. It was after the bath game when we were talking about Spencer being a you know JP Holden. At JP Holden. Here we go. There was there is a scrum half called Ben Spencer, who is gobby and known for his temper. He knows him well. On his shirt, there's a nine, so he's expected to whine for sure. He's the Prem's worst offender. I feel this guy knows a lot about rugby. I'm assuming it's a bloke, could be wrong. Then he was on the one about a cracking start. It could be Yeah, he is a cracking start. But then he then picked up on your you said you didn't like Miles Reed.

SPEAKER_03: 53:36

And I do not remember that. I yeah, of course I remember. I still don't like Miles Reed.

SPEAKER_02: 53:42

Because he's so good. Yeah, he said Bath has a Bath has a Bath have a back row called Miles Reed, who had hair, then it began to recede. Now the one time ginge is a noise round the fringe and lives in Lee's head rent-free. It doesn't quite rhyme, but it's pretty good. And then finally, I'd say he knows Miles, then he's got he's got one for Miles here. And this was the Or Miles. Yeah, it's one Olympic. Miles showed a lot of man love for Moroni. Oh yeah. So this is this is this is for you. Go on in. Said Matty Moroni's a new boy for Briz. His impact is hard not to miss. And so lo and behold, if his feet don't get cold, Miles will blow him a kiss.

SPEAKER_06: 54:26

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03: 54:28

Whoa, are you wait? That's gotta be Hammy Hambley in disguise. Could be Hammy Hambley in disguise.

SPEAKER_02: 54:36

It could be a third Hambley we've never heard of that's coming in from nowhere, but it could be a mizzen. Seriously, we could have a a laureate.

SPEAKER_03: 54:43

If that is JP Holden, then that is class, right? And he's even got a poet's name.

SPEAKER_02: 54:50

Yeah, so we appreciate that. And it also shows that he actually, well, Leslie ran it through AI and said, right, listen to the transcript and come up with a couple of poems that are quite good, then, but we'll assume he is a keen listener to the pod. So if you want to make up some sort of rhyming poem for this pod, then we'll look out for it.

SPEAKER_03: 55:09

The Hamley brothers are going to be on that now. Some of these are already on it.

SPEAKER_02: 55:14

Okay. Right, boys, we need to wrap it up. It was supposed to be a short one. It is about nearly an hour. Oh well, I'm sure people repeat. I'm sure people can fast forward through it if they want to. So anyway, um, we probably won't do a pod next weekend.

SPEAKER_05: 55:29

Probably until Northampton.

SPEAKER_02: 55:30

We'll do something to preview the Northampton game, may get a couple of things in there. So in the meantime, everyone, have a good week. Stay safe, and