Bears Beyond The Gate
A Bristol Bears podcast made by fans for fans. Each week your hosts Pete, Lee and Miles will take a light-hearted look at developments from Ashton Gate and beyond.
Bears Beyond The Gate
Ep 205 - Bears win ugly in the ding-dong derby
Pete, Miles and Lee pick through the narrow win against the Chiefs as well as previewing the upcoming fixture against Gloucester with help from Ed Price from the Cherry Jam fan pod.
There is also the usual excellent contributions from listeners and a bonus section on Bennard Janse Van Rensburg's post match interivew with Clare Thomas.
Finally, we finsh off with a big, big Goat, an update on the work of the Supporters Advisory Committee and pay homage to the game's look-a-like cam effort.
Slight apologies for the length of the episode, but to make it more manageable chapter markers have been inserted to allow for 'structured' listening!
Hi, I'm Austin Healy, the voice of Rugby, and you're listening to The Bears Beyond the Gate, which I'm not going to be on. You're listening to Bears Beyond the Gate, a Bristol rugby podcast made by fans for fans, with three friends who love the club, the game and all things bears. This week we talk over the narrow victory against Chiefs. Miles said last week that it was going to be a ding-dong derby, but was it more ding than dong, or was it just a bit of both? Either way, it was an ugly win with quite a few talking points on and off the field. The next game is Gloucester away, next Friday night, and it's going to be another trip for the flag. The Cherry and Whites haven't had the best of starts, so we hear from Ed Price of Cherry Jam Podcast Fame, who gives us the lowdown and his thoughts on how it may go. All this and more, I'm Pete, and I'm joined by Lee and Miles for a cheeky beer and a bit of rugby banter at our spiritual home, the Bristol Beer Factory Tap Room Studio Bar. Well, boys, Chiefs came into town. Um and Miles, you went out of town because you were a little bit you were a bit scared because you heard that there was a massive coach coming from Columpton. Exactly.
SPEAKER_04:When the opposite way down the M5. Exactly.
SPEAKER_05:Was your pecker down or was it up? Pecca down, I think. Pekka was down. But we faced the fire, didn't we, Lee? We faced the Columpton onslaught.
SPEAKER_06:We faced the onslaught head on.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and uh of course we we sat with your mate Paddy. Yeah, we certainly did. Well for the first half at least. For the first half, Paddy came and sat next to me and Lee. And Lee came and sat next to me and me. Paddy and Lee came and sat next to me. And then second half, they didn't come back.
SPEAKER_06:We went we went wandering. Yeah, but you were watching the game. Yeah. We we we um we we kind of well Paddy wanted to have a look at the different like the views from the different parts of the stadium. So we did a little stadium. Well what other view did you get then? Uh well we saw the uh the Bristol uh beer factory uh kiosk outside. Uh so we we kind of saw a lot the inside of that. Um sports bar action. But the most important thing was Paddy enjoyed the hospitality that we provide in Bristol and beer's free. So yeah, I didn't.
SPEAKER_05:You didn't go, I thought I saw two people, lonely people, sat on their own in the attio in the second half. That wasn't you and Paddy, was it?
SPEAKER_06:It could have been I I honestly can't remember at that point. So I I'm actually referring to your notes, Pete, as we as the guide me through the pod today.
SPEAKER_05:Every now and again I have to send Lee some notes of what actually happened. You mean where about where he was? Yeah, when pad only when Paddy's in town.
SPEAKER_06:But to be fair though, even when I watched the full game, you still need to send me the notes, don't you? Yeah. Because my yeah, my memory is not great, as we all know.
SPEAKER_05:And Miles, you I I was joking. I mean, you you weren't missing an action, you were with us spiritually, and you did manage to get the game in, didn't you?
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely, went down for my uh mother-in-law's 80th birthday bash weekend. Obviously, obviously couldn't miss that. Rock and roll. Rock and roll, exactly. Well, once once in a lifetime weekend, what was it, a tea dance and bingo? Yeah, something like that. No, lovely weekend in North Devon. Luckily, there was a huge TV with Discovery Plus and TNT. So managed to lock myself in a room with the Duchess and my brother-in-law and watch the game uh on playback full yeah, so it was great, brilliant.
SPEAKER_06:Well, we I don't know, does that sound a bit antisocial for an 80th birthday party? You bugger off for two hours and watch rugby.
SPEAKER_04:Not really, they did the the the rest of the family were just in the swimming pool. I mean the other half live.
SPEAKER_05:It is his mother-in-law, so obviously she didn't really care if Miles was there or not, really, to be fair. So I think he probably used that to his advantage. She waited for his back to turn in and then the shampoos came out. Exactly. But anyway, boys, it was another win.
SPEAKER_06:And uh sorry, can I just say you classed it as an ugly win? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I loved that. Yeah. I loved that because that was the sort of performance, the ugliness. There's a beauty in the ugliness, I think.
SPEAKER_05:There was, and I and I think we all agreed that, didn't we, during and well, after the game for sure, when we actually had the points, but even during it, we were saying, you know, this is a we're under the kosher, we've got a lot of things going against us, but we're the boys are really trying to problem solve this and they're they're really digging deep. And actually, you're absolutely right. It was probably more fun that game watching it live than it was perhaps you know watching that 10 try kind of thriller again or 10 try trouncing against Newcastle a few seasons ago. It was it was tight.
SPEAKER_04:It was, I mean, I must say it wasn't fun watching it on TV, but you're right, it was an ugly, unconventional style of play and a win on the Bristol front. Like you're right, something that which we rarely see, isn't it?
SPEAKER_06:Well, I think a lot of neutrals wouldn't have thought that we'd had that performance in us as well. I mean, I don't know if we did, actually.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I I I I mean yeah, we'll talk about it, but I don't know how we carried off that sort of win, but ultimately.
SPEAKER_05:No, I think I mean I think we kind of assumed, I mean, we talked about this last week that we would, you know, we would play the normal way, um, and we would try and play expansive rugby and we'd try and get a foothold in the game and not kick it much and all that sort of stuff. And and I think you know, w within five minutes one of our our wingers was off for an HIA. We then had to get someone else out in and then then someone in and uh you know out of position, and then we had someone else come in. I just think that ultimately our bat line ended up being a kind of so patched together and none of them having necessarily played much together as combinations that I think we were forced on the pitch really to go back to a bit more of a basic, sort of ugly, dirty, forward-dominated game.
SPEAKER_06:Well, do you know what is if Pat has this big ethos on uh having players that are versatile, and I mean there was that was really proven on Saturday that we had players stepping into position. At one point, Pete, we were like, But who's on the wing now? And do you know what I mean? You just you didn't know, but they but that is the beauty of versatility is that the you know we've got players that can play in different positions, and we still made it work. I I I loved it, I thought it was brilliant.
SPEAKER_05:Well, uh, we uh before we carry on to talk a little bit more about it, we do love it when we get un sort of heralded uh contributions from listeners. And this week I didn't put out a short, sharp summary. I I I just thought I'm just gonna see you know what reactions come in, and and we did get a few reactions in from our kind of standard people, and I and I will probably talk about those a little bit later, but we did get a a kind of sp a a voice note from one of our longtime listeners who we meet a lot down the pub, uh Dan Masters, and he he felt obliged. I think he was so moved by the game and what he experienced that he felt kind of he felt committed to send us a voice note, and I I feel like I have to play it.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, he was in a good place, wasn't he? It was good it was brilliant.
SPEAKER_05:It was a good place. So, what I think we'll do now is we'll play Dan's little voice note that he sent us from after the game, and uh and then we can carry on talking. So uh here it comes.
SPEAKER_02:Uh Bears Beyond the Gate, it is uh Dan Masters, uh Spaniel Masters here. I am sat outside of the lovely junction, little Bristol Beer Factory Dunction, looking across the docks, the Matthews in front of me. I've got a nice pint of uh Vienna flight as uh discussed by you on the pod. Just want to say what a great game of rugby we had today, so very tense to win it at the end, like we did. Fair play to Wordsley, he stepped up, put his hand up and said, I can kick that boss, don't worry, you leave it to me. Fair play to Fitz, he stood his stood his ground, he told the ref that he was right. Of course, he's always right. How the ref could not see that, and nice to see that Rosie is uh turned someone over for us for once. It's my first time uh doing a little voice message to the pod. I'm hoping you can uh put this one out. I won't swear, I promise. I've had a few, but happy days. Um missed you guys down. I didn't see any of you down there today. Although I think I saw Lee in uh in the beer factory, but um didn't get a chance to say hello. Uh next time I want to see all the hankies waving. Where do we go, Hankeys? Happy days. Take steady boys, ta-da.
SPEAKER_05:Right, well, there you go, there was Dan. Um that was that was very good, wasn't it? That was very concise, very eloquent, I thought. And um mind you I feel I need to deal with one issue first. Oh you mentioned the hankyes. Yeah, yeah. And of course, this is hero listeners will know this. That I have promised hero listeners a hanky for contributing to this amazing equipment. Uh, but I've just realised I have absolutely no idea how I'm supposed to distribute these hankies. So I think we the hankies will happen, but I kind of got the impression Dan really wanted one to wave around at the game. So I'm gonna have to have a little think about this.
SPEAKER_06:Maybe it's got to be like sports bar or just that is like this.
SPEAKER_05:I think sports bar after a couple of the next home game will bring a like uh a sort of tub and I'll just say to everybody if you want a hanky, there is it, it's in the corner, and this is the certain location that if you are listening to the pod, you know where it is, and if you're not listening to the pod, you won't know, and it's up to you in your own time and your own sort of uh ability to go and find a hanky, and if you find it, that's great, because that's about as easy as I can't think of any other way of doing it, not particularly.
SPEAKER_04:And we better get it done before flu season's over, otherwise, no one will want these hankies, will they, Pete? And can we just sorry we don't yeah, don't spread your germs to other people who want these hankies.
SPEAKER_05:But I think more importantly, and hankies are important, of course, in flu season, as Miles pointed out from a health and safety point of view. Uh, more importantly, Dan uh had you know, he was it was a sense of satisfaction, wasn't it? Is what we were saying early on. I think he he was obviously sat there with his point of view at a flight, feeling pretty good about the game and uh feeling that the boys had really dug deep. Um, you know, he pointed out the issue with the yellow card being rescinded and the TMO coming to our our uh help for ones. Yeah, quite um, but I think it was that it was like we were saying normally we're buzzing when we score bonus points and we score five tries, but actually, Lee, like you were saying, at the ground there was a real kind of buzz of it was nerve-wracking at the end, we know we were we were game, we had two minutes to game manage our way, and we were all kind of thinking, oh, we'll never do it, and we did it quite easily in the end. And even though little Sam Worsley still needed to nail that kick, because as we were pointing out, if he had he even though it was in the red, if he had like if it if he had come up short and they counterattacked, they could still the ball was still live. So it was a really satisfying five satisfying feel at the end.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, did you did you boys think that we would pick and go for the whole last two minutes? It was really odd on the TV. I thought this is we've done this in the past, uh attempted game management, but there's no way we're gonna we we're gonna attempt this for two minutes and something will go wrong.
SPEAKER_06:But ultimately, we did well, didn't we? Yeah, and won the game. And we we should pick up Sam Worrisley as well, because I I think I'm right in saying he is a Devon lad, isn't he? Because I I'm I'm pretty sure he's got um maybe a younger brother who's who's maybe Columpton or that way.
SPEAKER_05:Literally, every it's like everybody is related to somebody for Columpton in the world, it does seem that way, doesn't it? It's like it's not it's not like the heart of Africa where the human race died, it's Columpton.
SPEAKER_06:But um I mean I'm sure he would have absolutely loved that, and it was a ballsy kick at the end, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And also, I think in the context that he had quite a tough season last year because he was thrown in last year as well when we had our injury crisis, wasn't he? And had a few tough games, and you know, he did get a little bit of pelters on social media, like wrongly, obviously. Um so I was pleased for the lad. He looked really pumped when he when that he was really punching the the air when it went over, and that like the big boys, the forwards came up.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05:And I saw Bats give him a massive bear hug, and yeah, Rubiolo. This is a guy that's been 80 minutes with the all blacks and he reckon and 80 minutes with the Sapphas, and he he came up and gave him a big hug because he realised that they had set it set up that but he still had to deliver.
SPEAKER_04:Great for his confidence. Uh and I think you know, we'll chat a little bit uh in about the sort of team next week, but um, we need him, don't we? We need him to be on form, we need him to be uh, you know, uh really confident and to be able to nail those little kicks.
SPEAKER_05:I mean he came he came on in 46 minutes when Bates went off for an HIA. So he had a good he was there, yeah, he had a good half, so it wasn't just a kick. And yeah, I mean it looks the way it is, it looks like he is gonna have to start against Gloucester, which is uh because he is our probably now our only recognised 10 that was available.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Well, I mean Gloucester are obviously gonna target him, aren't they? I mean, so we we need to put as many things in place to protect him. As many a brick wall, yeah, pretty much. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So um, yeah, I mean, so let's just think about the game. I mean, it started off uh it started off relatively positively. And then they mucked the first kickoff of the game. Yeah, and then we got a penalty, and we were all saying, just take the points. And guess what the boys did? They took the points. Yeah, Jordan goes we go 3-0 up, and uh, you know, and it and then then I think they then got another penalty quite quickly, annoyingly, but then Slade missed it and it drifted wide. So I was thinking, oh, you know, maybe the uh the force is with us a little bit, and then we kind of there was quite a lot of um sort of it felt a bit like a stalemate for a while. There we we were kind of probing and we were doing that thing that we always do where we're kind of sprinting it wide, doing the phases, we're trying to offload it, and we made a few mistakes on and off. It was the classic, there was a few drop balls, and I was I remember at the time thinking, uh, is this really gonna work? You know, they're Chiefs seem quite set, you know, they seem defensively, they're they're just gonna do what all these teams do, they're just gonna force us into mistakes, and I was thinking that, and you know what happened as as I was thinking that suddenly we break down the blind. Bill Matter, I see Bill Matter running the hundred metres in about 10 seconds, with Joe Batley kind of screaming behind him, and uh and we score. And of course, I felt really bad because I thought, yeah, that's the whole point of the system, isn't it? You probe and probe and probe and probe, and then you find and then you find a weakness, and you find the biggest man on the pitch, and and they and it was a classic because then I looked it back on replay and it was a brilliant, brilliant little bit of play. We had a it was a tip-on pass from somebody who drew the man, tipped it on, and then Stephen Varney bit in because of it, and because he bit in, Matter was left, and he and it was just very much the bears' way. Um one thing I'd say though there has been a bit of a trend for tri-scorers across all teams to do these big sort of ash slash swallow dives. How are we gonna rate Bills?
SPEAKER_04:Well, he's a big man, he's a big unit, isn't he? Um I don't know, it'd take quite a lot of effort to sort of lift himself above a metre off the ground, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, he was he was probably the one player in the team you'd think wouldn't attempt that, you know. He'd because I mean he'd like you say he is a big old unit.
SPEAKER_05:I I thought it was averagely done, it was five out of ten. Because I felt I could see Bats screaming behind him, like Bats was like punching. And now I think Bats was saying, do it, do it, do it. Ash splash, ash and Mata couldn't help himself, and then just as he was about to push off, he thought about Pat. He wasn't committed to it, wasn't he? I think in his mind he thought, if what happens if I drop this, even I'm scared of what Pat will say if I drop it. So he kind of pulled Coach Pat. So he kind of pulled out. I thought it was a it it was a he pulled out because which in in in a lot of ways is obviously quite sensible. Very sensible, yeah, yeah. Very sensible. So anyway, so what done, Matt. Well done, Bill Matter. It was it was a great, it was a great try. And actually at that point, I was thinking, oh well, this is it now, you know, we're gonna we'll uh I thought I felt confident then, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:I d I didn't ever get that feeling. I I've I think it was because like you said, the the the Chiefs were quite they were set up to kind of nullify a lot, weren't they, as well? And I I I just kind of still got that feeling, but maybe another try in quick like quick success. Well that's what I felt.
SPEAKER_05:I thought we might score again, and I thought I just I don't know, I just felt having been a bit kind of negative in my mind, saying, Oh, we're not gonna find space, then we suddenly found it, and I thought, oh yeah, come on, have faith, have faith in the system, trust the process. I was shouting to myself, trust the process. And guess what happened? They went and scored.
SPEAKER_07:They did.
SPEAKER_05:And of all people, it was like slayed. Oh, I know. There was a bit of controversy with that try, I thought, and I don't think that much was made of it.
SPEAKER_06:It was a lot, Pete.
SPEAKER_05:Well, you could tell those people that didn't see it.
SPEAKER_06:Tell all I don't know what it's what it looked like on the TV, but I mean for us, there was I mean, it was such a forward pass, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_05:No, what the fuck was it not that? No, it was the crossing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was Daffid Jenkins got in the way of Jack Bates, I thought. And it looked pretty obvious. Yeah. I looked at it back on um on the replay, and I still thought it was pretty dodgy because I think Mark, who sat in front of us, said, Oh no, it was fine because he was behind him, but I don't know. I looked at it and I thought Bates was drawn into was going to try and tackle Slade or Hammers or some of them, and Dafford Jenkins got in his way. And I was thinking that's gotta be the definition of obstruction if you stop him making a tackle.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So anyway.
SPEAKER_06:I mean, I I do think actually, I mean, I'm I'm I'm not one to blame referees, even when but I did think some of the officiated uh the you know was pretty shocking on Saturday.
SPEAKER_05:My only caveat to that is that as a as an officiating team, you could argue they did quite a good job because they actually got the decisions right eventually. Yeah. And if you say the TMO is part of the team, you're right, he did step in and the ref accepted it and and the ref was brave enough to to rescind that try. This is the try in the second half, rescind Fitzy's yellow. But what's the other counter argument to that?
SPEAKER_06:Oh, I mean, I I I wouldn't say it was brave enough, it was so it was so obvious, wasn't it? I mean, he couldn't what else could he do, really?
SPEAKER_05:I mean, it was there was a sense that also the touch judges were trying to ref the game a bit as well. Yeah, and I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:I I think you're right, and listening to it on the TV, I mean the TMO was sort of you know assisting Woodthorpe quite a lot, and that was quite apparent. So you know, I I I don't know, you're right. The the pace of the game, we are not referees, is so fast. Um, but you're right, as a team, things have to be picked up if missed, and perhaps we'll we'll we'll give him a bit of slack because the right decisions were made by the television match effective.
SPEAKER_05:Matthew Carley was one of the Linos. Yeah, and at the end of the day, Matthew Carley is a top international referee, he's international, and I I'd imagine it is quite difficult for him not to get involved when it and he has got a young lad. And I I mean these guys have got to get the experience. I mean, Woodthorpe has done quite a few of our games, and he he's obviously like next in the line in the conveyor belt of English refs, but it I don't know, putting someone like Carly with him, he like on one hand you say it's yeah, it's great mentoring, but on the other hand, it's like he's it's got a busybody on the sidelines.
SPEAKER_06:Well, I mean that's the thing. I mean, Car you know, Carly, I mean, we all know we we know four well. I remember the WASPs years ago. But Carly, he does like to get involved, doesn't he? Even when sometimes, like, you know, yeah, taking a back seat is is probably you know, just let the referee, you know, run the game. I mean he's he's got to learn anyway, somehow.
SPEAKER_05:So well, he definitely learnt a few things on Saturday. Absolutely. Anthony Woodthought. And let's be honest, we've done the league a bit of a favour, you know, it'll be a better ref for it. Yeah, absolutely. And we and we won. So I've got to have meetings.
SPEAKER_04:They have meetings on the Monday, don't they? So they'll they'll say what decisions went well and didn't go so well.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I mean he did give us a few as well. I I I think I don't know, it's just really I I just find it difficult talking about refs because it's a really difficult job to do. And these boys have have got to make split decisions initially. And then if the TMO can come in and say, I mean, I didn't look, let's be honest, I didn't spot that those three blokes came out of the line out and then to then throw them all. No, no. So we didn't spot it. And I and and like you might say, well, the ref's supposed to look at it, he's looking at other things. He's looking at has the jumper gone early, has he landed? Is there any interference? Is you know, there's a lot of things they're looking for. I I'd say the only thing is probably the Lino should have seen that really, the that more than the rest.
SPEAKER_04:I think so. Anyway, so anyway, I guess at that point it was still, you know, we were still one point up, were we eight seven to Bristol, even though we'd a slave discord on 29 minutes. But calamity then, wasn't it? At 30 minutes. Because we sadly sadly lost Tom Jordan, didn't we? Um I mean, so for what were we gonna say about this?
SPEAKER_05:Well, first off, the context was that we were pumping their line, and uh this was one where we uh Fitz went blind as Mars went on the when Fitz went on the run side, on the blind side, and he he did a chicken wing out the back, and it was a bad pass, and whoever was there, maybe Peppers or would have dropped it. So they got a scrum, it was a knock-on. And I'm pretty sure, and some listeners out there may correct me, but I'm pretty sure it's from that scrum that Vincent, the number eight, picked the ball up and ran at Jordan, sidestepped him and then got hit, smashed in the face. So actually, it was kind of there was context that it was our attack, almost scoring, that led to the scrum, which led to their possession, which led to them having the ball, which led to them side Vincent sidestepping Jordan, which led to him smashing him in the face. Anyway, you were gonna say, what do you think then, Lee? Was that a red?
SPEAKER_06:It's it's a tricky one. I I I think probably on the scheme of things, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I I like you say there was you could see how it happened, but I think yeah, ultimately the rules are the rules, and I think that's yeah, I think you're right.
SPEAKER_04:The rules are the rules, he was too upright, and the mitigation was that he did attempt to rap, and that was Anthony Wintor's.
SPEAKER_05:Because I thought he was upright and he went up as well. I thought he was quite it could have been even worse because he didn't, he he was he went he went up, the force was up, which is dangerous.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but I know, but it did feel like it was just shoulder to shoulder when they did it on the replay. So I I I think it was pretty lucky, but I I was explaining to the Duchess, I think this is the new sort of 20-minute red card that they went to see this season, and you know, ultimately we didn't have a man off for the for the rest of the entire game. I mean, and that would have just ruined it. Um, extra Chiefs fans might feel slightly aggrieved that this has come in, but I think it makes for a better game in my pin.
SPEAKER_05:We all know what I mean, you can't feel aggrieved about a rule that exists. You've all got to accept it. And it wasn't a straight red, so no. I think I I think it was fair enough, yeah, yeah, to be honest. I think Jordan would hold his hands up and say, I mean, at the end of the day, he went high. It doesn't matter if you get sidestepped, no, no, you're supposed to be going low. That's the whole point. And there's still a lot of players are still going high. And I know it's hard, and I know if any players are listening, they'll be like, Well, you what do you know? It's like, I know, but you know, you do train, like you know, I don't always, you know, when I mark in my geography books, I do put the stamps in the right place to say well done. I don't put them in the top of the margin. I mean, they like you say, they Because you do it in training, but they train to go low, don't they? So I mean, yeah. So so we agree that it was probably a good rep, but of course it compounded. We like we're almost gonna score, and then suddenly we're down to we've lost our playmaker. So it was a pretty bad end to the half. I suppose the only and then they um then they scored two minutes later, didn't they? So they scored, which is always the way. So then I'm thinking, having been quite confident in the first quarter, thinking we'll it will ease away in this game. Now I'm thinking we're under the pump here, this is gonna be a nightmare. It's 20 minutes as well. And actually, 20 minutes does actually feel like quite a long time not having a player on.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, that was that what's that that was 30 minutes, and yeah, half time we went in 14-8 down, didn't we? And it did feel like yeah, it's it's a long time till we've got a new man coming on.
SPEAKER_06:Did anyone have visions of you know when Chiefs came down a few years ago and they kind of played that sort of game against us and they beat us? Yeah, did you did was anyone like stuck getting a little bit worried then at that point? Because I certainly it was in the back of my mind.
SPEAKER_05:My only issue was I didn't think they were that good. No. No, so I wasn't it's weird. Like I look back and I think I wasn't if it had been like, you know, I'd gone to that Saracens game, and after five minutes, whatever it was, and we were 40-nil down, I I knew 100% knew, that the only thing I had to look forward to was us not conceding 50 points, and we did. Yeah, so that was a different I didn't feel like that at half time, I still felt somehow that we were gonna pull it out of the bag.
SPEAKER_04:I I agree, I think neither team were at their best. Uh I think you you went down the gate yesterday and saw it, but you you're right, there were mistakes being made on either side. We made plenty of knock-ons. I mean, uh the defensive set was great. We I I pretty much think we we sort of stymied um Bampo and Brown and and Faye were both so pretty well, very good point, which have been their deadly attack in the last two games. So to the fact that neither of them scored, defensively we were great, but the attack they weren't great either. Um and I you know, fair result, and you're right, uh they didn't march on and score another four.
SPEAKER_05:It's funny you say that because I I think I I must be on. You know what? I'm actually on Extra Supporter's Facebook group because ages ago I actually went on there to ask if any fans wanted to come on. Oh yeah, I remember that scene. And the admin let me on, and I got feedback from their fans. Yeah, and both most of the fans were saying that they were pretty annoyed with their own team, they should have won that game, and they felt that they hadn't played to their strengths at all. Right. That they had and they they should have got it out to the wingers a lot more. But then the counter-argument is I think our boys like Pepper, Lennon, Revovo, when they were all no, they did a good job against them. They we really did, we really focused and really shut them down. Yeah, yeah. So we talk a lot about defence, and the irony was when we were totally or lack of defence. Well, well, but the irony was this week where we didn't have any sort of cohesive unit, we defended really well. Yeah, I know. So this is and it's funny this whole thing about defence, because last week at Saris, it became everyone's talking about oh, we need an you know, what's the defence, what's the structure? And I thought, you know what, I don't know. I don't really like how do you coach defence? Are you coaching how to tackle or are you coaching what to do in certain situations?
SPEAKER_06:I mean it's it's like formations, isn't it? It's like what when we haven't got the ball, obviously, you know, you've got your formation you set, and but it it was so gritty.
SPEAKER_05:I I did love it. I thought I thought it was great, and it kind of shows that also defence isn't just a structure formation, it's a it's a it's a it's a kind of peace of mind, isn't it? It's an ideology. It's uh you know, it's it's like they say when you know if you're if your kid gets stuck under a car, you find the strength to lift the car up. Yeah. Like this thing. It's like in the Hulk or something. Well you know what I mean, but I've heard this. Like if you if you know you find a power from somewhere, and it was almost like that's what we did.
SPEAKER_06:The one thing that I loved as well is is every player had each other they all had each other's backs.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, I think you're right.
SPEAKER_06:And it and that kind of that that will stand us in good stead, you know, going into the season.
SPEAKER_05:Uh especially since you think some of these players like you know, Max Pepper has only just joined, he's he's not integrated. Carrington, even though he went out, he only lasted like two minutes, but we haven't got a cohesive really Oscar Lennon Oscar Lennon's come in from on the red eye from like the US.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05:And he's you know, he has been here before, but you know, he they basically rang him and said, We ain't got enough kit, can you just bring your old kit with you? Even though it's got Haboo and two good international. So it's quite even better. That's what I'm saying. It's brilliant that we hadn't even really it was almost like they was just like, boys, we've just the defensive structure for today is fight for your lives. Yeah, nothing more, just over the line.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05:So anyway, so I you know, I thought, I know, and I saw Rob Baxter said afterwards that he was actually really disappointed that they didn't score in the first 10, 20, 15 minutes of the second half when they had ascendancy over us, and they they didn't really they kind of just didn't, you know. We and we then you know, we I think we then realised that the only way we're gonna win this game now is we have to we have to dominate them up front, we have to get stuck in. And that was the moment, the turning point almost of the game, and and and I'm not saying this just because it's him, but Dunny comes on, yeah. Dunny comes on, Santi Grandona comes off, who's uh a genuine open side, yeah. But Dunny comes on, goes goes in the engine room with Rubiolo, big Pedro, and uh he comes on, he goes, Hola, Pedro goes, hola, and he's go and then Dunny gets his GCSC Spanish out and just says, Let's go to work. And then Bats goes at six in an accent like hello, alo. And and Mark, who is yeah, looks a bit alo, hello. I bet Spanish is like, no, Dunny just looked at Pedro in the eye and he said, Vamos, vamos, let's go. Anyway, Mark sat in front of us, who's a scrum noise, he said to me, Bats at six, that's gonna be some power going through that scrum. Guess what happened? Scrum penalty, yeah. So we got a scrum penalty, then we I think thinking it through, we then kicked Worsley, then put in an unbelievable long kick. Yeah, and we and then Dunny got it on the line out and we rolled an Augre score. Now, if that's not a turning point, you tell me what is.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, yeah, I mean um well, we know Dunny's playing for a for a contract, don't we? And he has been so consistent this season. I mean, it's great. First of all, that obviously the surgery's all got. Well, um, and it is brilliant to have a fully fit and functioning Donny back into that side, and he it he did make a difference.
SPEAKER_04:He was like a man possessed. The minute he came on yesterday, he brought on some liveliness, grunt, and you're right. You know what? I like to thought he had his show.
SPEAKER_05:I like to think, I think Donny thinks you know, he said we were gonna he he wants he wanted a response. He said to me at Sarry's we got response. Do you think when he came on he said I promised those boys? Yeah, promised Bears were on the gate and me on that and he said I can't let those boys down.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, and he did we were his inspiration, yeah, yeah. And you could see it as well after when he came in. He came well out after the game boys. He came to see us, Dougie came to see us, and I I did get neck ache looking at Joe Owen as well, because I didn't realise he was taller than he is tall lad, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I didn't realize everyone's taller in real life. Like eight I said Avon Boschoff last week felt like twice my size, even little Max Pepper. Poor old Paddy needed a stepladder to chat to Joe Owen. He did. Anyway, we're digressing.
SPEAKER_04:So anyway, so so we're so we're 1514 up, aren't we? At what 57 minutes, which is yeah, I bet you're thinking, well, we we'll push on from here potentially. Um, you know, we've got all we've got all our men. Did we have all our men back on the pitch?
SPEAKER_05:No, because guess what happened? Of course we didn't. We no, we did, we had everyone back on because um Lennon then came on. Yeah, of course. Lennon came on for Jordan, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So uh and then Lennon was 15 on the pitch, but not not in the right position.
SPEAKER_05:We had Lennon on the wing because he didn't have time, they hadn't really worked out him him and Kira Marmion hadn't had time to do rock scissors rock rock paper scissors to find out who was gonna go scrum up. So Lennon goes on the wing, suddenly he gets like a he gets it popped, he's got a yard to score the try, and he gets held up because someone's natural one of the chief's forwards comes in with his finger and lifts him up like that and says so because anyway, so we then so that was a bit annoying, and then what happened after that? You see, you boys, that's why I make these notes, because I know what happened. Shall I tell you what happened? They then broke and Pepper got carded for a deliberate knock-on.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And actually, when you go back at it, you think he took one for the team there because guess who was going to be at the end of that pass? It was Fayo Boso. Yeah, and actually he probably had a he probably got a run in.
SPEAKER_04:We still definitely was that we did have a man back on the 20th.
SPEAKER_05:Oh no, it wasn't a penalty try, but the thing was he had he he probably it anyway, so he he trotted off.
SPEAKER_04:Well, anyway, well we did have three scrum afs on the pitch at that point, so yeah. So we needed one, he needed one. We needed one of them off, didn't we?
SPEAKER_05:It's a bit village to have three on it. But anyway, that's what he thought. So that was the problem. Um so Pepper's off on a yellow 60 minutes, wasn't it? Oh and this is where this is where you you know why I think we're then down on the line, and there's a scrum, and there's and this is where I think this is the moment the forwards realised that this game was only going to be won by them because Klosker started scrapping. I definitely remember Klosker just started scrapping with somebody from the handbags, and then and then he got he got subbed. He didn't spend miserable walking off and then he got subbed, and then walked. I think Jake came on or something. No, Charitama came on, and then they got a scrum pen. And he's always and Mark again. Sorry, I've name check Mark said this to me. He said, Why is it that they always bring like your replacements on just about when you're about to have a scrum? Surely you just like wait, like, and then you know get through it. And it's a bit like line outs they sometimes bring forwards on just about go line out, and you think anyway, so it was a great tackle at some point there with from Fitz as well, wasn't it? Yes, remember that brilliant tackle, and then of course, this was what all then led up to they were pumping our line.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, we were defending like lions, but then uh I mean on TV, I mean it was you know, Pepper went off from about 65 minutes to the end of the game. They were pumping our our try line for the full 15 minutes. Uh and I don't know, I know well we'll we'll chat about the the DeSillo try.
SPEAKER_05:How well how well we defended that with Alan well I mean we did everything then went off, and now we think that might have been an injury thing because I'm sure he didn't want to leave.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, some little little ankle thing.
SPEAKER_05:They were pumping inevitably, you know, you a couple of penalties are coming, and then of course we're thinking that's two pens. It the worst scenario try, you think they score, and we get a yellow card as well, and lo and behold, it appears that they score, and not only is it yet it's fit, see, and you're thinking like our hero, but this was the whole thing, and I guess a lot of people have read about this now or seen it on telly. But the for those that are you know our listeners in out of Mongolia and the Chiefs listeners, and the chief supporters will put them straight. And let's just just let's talk this through nice and clearly, yeah, for the Chiefs fans. Miles, you were watching on Telly. Do you want to do it?
SPEAKER_04:Well, it wasn't clear, it wasn't clear real time.
SPEAKER_05:Was it even clear on telly?
SPEAKER_04:Uh we had no idea what it was. Yeah, anyway, yeah, when the TMO pulled it back. I mean, ultimately, um we were about to get a yellow card, and you're right. I I said I said we might as well just let them try, let them score out on the periphery, you know, uh on the edge, and they might miss the kick. Fitzy did take down a man, he just pulled them down, so you know, letter of the law, yellow card was the correct decision. But um TMO said, Oh, you know, Woodthorpe is gonna just look at the look at the line out, slowed it down, and before, is it Yandel? Was it number two? Before Yandel even threw it in, three not one, not two, but three Chiefs uh forwards in the line out, stepped out of the line out, uh, and in effect prepared to you know uh push their man forward over the line. Highly illegal.
SPEAKER_05:I mean that's but they they even they even then put their arms around each other as well and then started running.
SPEAKER_06:I mean, chiefs always play on the edge, don't they? Yeah, on the they're very much on the borderline before that was miles, yeah, mile gallon days. But yeah, that even for them that was But you have to question the line out.
SPEAKER_05:Do you not even spot that?
SPEAKER_06:Well, but I mean I we didn't spot it in the stands.
SPEAKER_04:You have to question the training ground move that they thought they could even get away with that. Stepping out the line out, three of them to propel their man uh literally with two metres momentum over the line.
SPEAKER_05:It's almost like when Rob Baxter was interviewed about it afterwards, and he kind of admitted it, but it's almost like he's saying, I told those bastards to cheat, but not like that.
SPEAKER_04:Not so obviously like did they not understand when it was cheating when it was slowed down, it was so obvious that they stepped out before the for the number two even threw into the line.
SPEAKER_05:Because let's be honest, that is what a top quality team can do. We know that the all blacks at C Sarah you cheat, but you don't do it obviously, you do it because the refs have only got so much time to make decisions, so you do it and then the moment's gone. But that was bad. Those boys, I I reckon actually they are gonna that video review tomorrow. They are stirring the Chinese. They're gonna be like stood up in front, but like standing by backs in front of everybody, and they're gonna have to apologize for their for their poor cheating. In the old days, they'd have had the ruler on the backs of the legs, wouldn't they? I think I imagine it's still like that down in Devon.
SPEAKER_04:I reckon.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, I I think I don't think liberalism has got down that far here, is it?
SPEAKER_04:Do you think punishment is? They get their soft mallets chopped off. Could be.
SPEAKER_06:That's even worse than the ruler.
SPEAKER_04:I think they But am I right, boys? You you weren't clear why the decision had been rescinded, were you? No.
SPEAKER_05:And they didn't say anything on the I thought the whole thing was that they're supposed to tell us now on the on the on the And you know why they didn't tell us? Because I don't think we had a proper uh we weren't being filmed properly by TNT, were we? We were uh we were we were a red button job. Yeah, you're right. And we were on Discovery Plus. Obviously what it was so they didn't they didn't have the kind of comms in the stadium.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so thank goodness for the TMO. Correct decision, and then Fitsi was back on.
SPEAKER_05:And then we've talked about it, but let's finish it off. Then we talked about this earlier on, you know, we are we're still we're still worried because it was only a free kick after all that. You think you could at least he owed us a penalty like that?
SPEAKER_04:I mean we we were only one point up and anything could ever happen in the last ten minutes.
SPEAKER_05:And I think I think what happened was we we we obviously then had to give them possession back because it was only a free kick. They tack Yancy Van Rensburg gets a hold of non-penalty, we then go deep, we get another penalty, and it and it almost seems like the penalty was for it was for um back chat from Ethan Roots. Yeah, yeah, because he did the all the handles. Ref was not happy and I and I've slowed I looked at the reason. It was that, it was, you're right. That's good, but any more of that snippy snip type. I watched the the highlights today and I s I paused it as it came into that ruck, and I could see the two and I couldn't really see anyone really saying obviously one of them just said I mean I I spent what he said, but he must have said something pretty bad, yeah, and uh and it must have been quite personal to the ref that imagine like you know well, you're a blind fucker or something, something like that, although yeah. Family show, yeah. Family show. Oh, yeah, apologies. Um but yeah, anyway. It was and then of course we've said this, we we got the pedal, and then I thought, you know what, we're gonna we're good now, and then Worsley slots it job done, everyone's happy, we all go and get a few beers, you go out with Paddy, you you knock knock knock back a 10 10-year-old Bush Mills, and then his wife comes, and then his wife comes and picks him up at your flat 8 30 in the morning on Sunday. Oh no, perfectly planned beauty, perfectly planned, perfect weekend. Well, look, boys, I think we've done the game justice, but we do always get um a few listener uh a few listener uh contributions. We've already had Dan Masters, but I I feel like I want to whip through a few more. Um and uh the first one we had one from David Shellcross, very simple acrostic. Are you listening? Yeah, go for it. Single word acrostic, so you should be uh follow this on. It goes like this resilience, effort, vindication, enormous review, strength, appeal, leadership.
SPEAKER_06:Revealing?
SPEAKER_05:Reversal. Reversal. Very clever. Uh Hammy Hambley, poet laureate, obviously came in as he does. I mean he's he's cut he's now he's now contracted to do a poem within five minutes of the end of the game. Because on his contract. Um he oh hang on Oh, this is also uh an acrostic, but uh one with sentences, so concentrate, it's two words, all right. I'll give you a clue. It's a one, two, three, four, five, it's a seven and word and a four word. So here we go. The Bears made it hard for themselves, officials at sixes and sevens, under pressure through ill discipline. Not a pretty win, but a win. Chiefs take nothing from the game, expect harder games to come. Derby spoils are ours. Brilliant from Worsley and the dying minutes. Right already. Ashton Gate's still a fortress this season. Considering injuries, this is a huge result. Kudos to the team. Bounced back. Bounced back. Love it. Love it. Nice poet laureate. As as per the contract, well done. Yeah, absolutely. Top marks again. Anthony Baxter was back on, cycle fan. He was very negative last week, very upset last week, I think, for the Sarri's game. Well, I don't blame him. But he's come back, and uh his one is is not a lacrostic, it's just a short, sharp summary. He said, much better dog today. We did win that. How did we win that? Must keep 15 on the pitch. So it's short sharp. That was a lot of dog. Didn't understand how we won. We need to keep people on the pitch. I think everything's a valid point there.
SPEAKER_06:Well, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05:I kind of think that was probably the plan to start with, but uh Bristol Nick, Bristol Nick, Nick Howell, you both. Oh, we just spent a couple of hours before the game. Yeah, he said at Bears Beyond the Gate about yesterday. Think the boys turned a different corner today and took us to the edge of heaven.
SPEAKER_04:That sounds like a beard, a beer fact you should put on. On the edge of heaven, I think.
SPEAKER_06:Drinking with me is obviously the same sort of feeling.
SPEAKER_04:Do you know what? We I've said on the edge of hell, wouldn't it?
SPEAKER_05:Couple of hours with you. I promise I will come back to Nick. I was thinking about this, what you've mentioned. I we we should get Lewis to commission a Bears Beyond the Gate brew. On the edge of heaven. Edge of Heaven.
SPEAKER_04:That that is that is an amazing. You got you a next one. That is the next that is a next beer.
SPEAKER_05:They do small batch brews, don't they? The edge of heaven. I tell you what, if they well, edge of heaven. Well, or beyond the gate. Or just beyond the gate. Anyway, we digress. Sorry, Nick. I was halfway through your short, sharp summary. So let's start again. Think the boys turned a different corner today and took us to the edge of heaven. I thought we might be praying for time, but I enjoyed that as much as last Christmas.
SPEAKER_06:What the song?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I guess so.
SPEAKER_06:I've always put I never I never I never saw Nick as a as a George Michael. And it says actually talking to George Michael, we did slate me for my shorts.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, he said one for Lee and his shorts. Yeah. I was wearing shorts as well, but I couldn't get there because of the traffic. So you would have seen double shorts. You escaped. I escaped. And then uh finally, um finally, our friend um Deb's from King Sham, Deb's from K Town.
SPEAKER_04:K Town.
SPEAKER_05:She came back in, she said, Bears beyond again. I noticed the fans, normally very critical, are quiet today. No doubt they'll pipe up if we lose next week. And then she goes, not naming names, mind. Well, I'm gonna name a name. Miles. I wasn't even there. Yeah, no, you're the critical fan, you see. She's always because I reckon she she sees you the VRI and you're like, oh devs, you know I I guess talking of critical fans, uh, an atmosphere.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, on TV yesterday it seemed a little bit flat. That's because we were it was a tense game. I mean the crowd was what just over 15 and a half K, which was I I I felt a little bit disappointing for a Saturday afternoon derby, but I guess it was tense the whole game. Am I right? Same from the stands.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, we did what we did when it got when we needed to bristle, we we saved our bristling for the key moments. And I think and actually you when Woodthought was going for the I mean, looking at the screen with the team area, there was we were bristling for for a light.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I I I absolutely get where you're coming for. I think it was one of those games where the tension was palpable. It was palpable.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I mean, I might say on TN on the TV, I could hear Simba Cam, and I was I was thinking, head in hands, I was worried about Lee's mental health while that was. Well, he wasn't there, wasn't he?
SPEAKER_05:He was in the bar at the time, so he didn't miss it. So there we are.
SPEAKER_06:I actually got out, no, I walked out because Simba Cam just I don't blame you, mate. I don't blame you.
SPEAKER_05:We're rambling on, we're rambling on. So uh thanks for all of those. And there's but we have got one more, one more contribution that I want to play. And it's it doesn't happen very often, although it should do. But we always said that when Bernard Yancy Ran Rensburg gets mad of the match, we're always gonna I'm always gonna snip in his post-match interview because he's just so much fun listening to him. He hates doing it, and he hates doing it, but he he loves but he has been raised in the world of rugby cliches, and uh so I he was interviewed by Claire, who we all do. And I know she's quite Marmite, and a lot of fans don't like her commentating.
SPEAKER_06:I can't call her Marmite, because I love Marmite.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, but I mean Marmite is some doing that. You don't like Claire. So not at all. So anyway, I I I I couldn't be bothered to clip Claire out of it. So I think but I think you need Claire in it as well for the whole the whole postmatch. So what we'll do, boys, is uh I think we'll have a quick listen to the legend that is Bernard Yancy Van Rensburg.
SPEAKER_00:How on earth did you win that?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I can't I can't tell you exactly. Uh uh credit to our forwards for uh defending what three malls and scrums and everything in that last ten minutes when Nexeter was on our five the whole time and you know keeping them out from scoring. Uh and yeah, I mean that's that's the game changer. So yeah, great credit to our forwards for keeping them out.
SPEAKER_00:Equally, a lot of rejigs needed in that back division, you at the heart of those. Not just one rejig, but consecutive ones. You had about nine scrum halves on the pitch at one point. Take us into the conversations that were happening in the huddles. How did you go about figuring it out?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, uh obviously that's really unfortunate. You can't do anything about um the injuries that happened in the in the first two games. Um Coach Pat always says uh all scrum halves at Bristol Bay's are international wingers as well, so that's why we had three of them out there today. Um I think it's it's just obviously people playing out of positions again today, you know, with with Tom Tommy going off and Batesy going off as well. You know, we we're swapping around the whole time. It's just every time we get a break, we we we try and connect to each other, you know, uh as long as we try to be on the same page and and know what what the guy next to you is gonna do, you know, we'll will be a little bit more tight race unit, so that's uh that's what we're trying to do. And then in in the breaks, you know, try and keep it calm, try and connect to each other just to stay as tight as possible.
SPEAKER_00:How were the belief levels out there? Because it didn't feel from up in commentary, and based on Pat's reaction, perhaps from his perspective, too, as though you had that game one until your turnover in the 78th minute.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, it's it's it's one of those things, you know. The last 10 minutes, every time we had idle, we said, boys, we're not gonna give up, we're gonna keep fighting. And uh uh every opportunity that that I get in and around that, if whether it's a tackle, whether it's trying to go for the ball, whether it's trying to do a counter arc, I'm just trying to give him our all for the team, you know, to give us the best opportunity to win the game.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, Miles. So there's uh the legend that is Jansey van Rensburg. What do you think of that?
SPEAKER_04:I thought not the legend that is Claire Thomas, the uh the queen, the queen of cliches, literally into being the king of cliches. I mean, literally, I take my hat off to that man. He is the hardest, the nicest, the most South African African that we've got in the Bristol Bears. Absolutely love him. Uh and he's I guess he's a he's he he's a man of fairly few words, and he needed a little bit of prompting by the you know TNT commendator, but but fair enough. Uh you know, he he basically bigged up his team, he he's he's not just a one-man band, uh you know, uh and you're right, he played amazingly, and we wouldn't have won that game without his sort of uh resilience, as it were. Um but yeah, it's just his description. Coach Pat I love for Coach Pat Coach Pat.
SPEAKER_05:I could just see him sat at the front, like in their meetings, he's in the front row, in he, right at the front, and then when black puts it, he's puts his hand up Coach Pat Coach Pat, pick me, pick me, Coach Pat.
SPEAKER_06:Legs crossed. Well, one thing I would say is uh I love the fact that he didn't go down the yeah no route because yeah, I was you know did he start with a listen or look at the beginning?
SPEAKER_05:Oh not sure he did. Listen, don't know about it. It was actually ironically, wasn't one of his most cliche-ridden post matches. There was a couple of beauties. There was in and he's there was when he said I like to get in and around them.
SPEAKER_06:In and around them. Yeah, I I loved the fact that he goes, Oh, yeah, and he's got you know what I mean, he's he's like replaying it back in his easy loved one.
SPEAKER_05:But he just looks so grateful that he's being asked, like he's like a little like a rabbit in the headlights, but he's kind of like oh, he's like when you make a little year seven do a presentation and they don't really want to, but they're kind of quite pleased that they've been asked. He did smile the whole interview and fair play, love him. Absolutely. And he did I mean he did credit to the boys, he did, which is a standard. I mean, that's just a standard phrase across the whole of Bristol Bears rugby, innit? Credit to the boys. He didn't take the glory, Michael saying, absolutely, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. He didn't take the glory, he did. He praised his teammates, rightly so. He did a great job. So there was there was Yancy. Anyway, you're listening to Bears Beyond the Gate at Bristol Bears Podcast, made by fans, for fans. You can get in touch with us through our various social platforms or even email us at bearsbeyondegate at gmail.com. Well, boys, we've got uh another game, thick and fast. It's Gloucester away. Um they've not had a great start to the season, but before we have a little think about that game, I managed to grab a little chat with a big friend of the pod, Ed Price from Cherry Jam, their fellow fans podcast. He's always very good, very uh articulate. So I had a quick chat with him this afternoon and uh to find out what life's like at the M5. And this is how it went. Okay, so it's great to welcome Ed Price back to Bears Beyond the Gate. Uh he is the head honcho of Cherry Jam Podcast, the Gloucester Podcast. Um so, Ed, you had a bit of a a tough day yesterday down the wreck on many levels. Uh, I think you were 28 nil down at one point, which is something that Bears fans can uh can relate to.
SPEAKER_03:So um, yeah, what how was it yesterday? Hi, Pete. Yeah, no, um, thank you very much for having me on again. Um, I always enjoy um uh uh spreading the cheer uh whenever I get the chance to come on the uh on the pod. Um yeah, so it was it was a it was a tough day. I mean, the no Gloucester fan kind of expected anything other than a defeat. I think if we'd managed to snaffle a bonus point, that would have been seen as a big victory. And probably we should have done actually. Um we did have a few opportunities in that second half and and just our horrendously awful line out is um it keeps uh causing us problems. Um yeah, 28-0 down. I mean, ironically, we were 31-0 down to Northampton the week before. Um, but um yeah, any chance of a comeback this time were was really not in not of the question, to be honest. Um I know there's a bit of a fight back in the second half, helped very much by Finn Russell being a bit of an idiot and giving away a stupid yellow card. Um there's a few bright points. I mean, I thought Will Joseph was was very good. If anybody hasn't seen the chance to see his solo try, um pretty remarkable finish there, and he was also instrumental in setting up losses second. Um it's just yeah, it's it's this season so far has been pretty abject, um very average up at sale and got beaten up. Uh Northampton, you probably would have seen it was just chaos in the first half, managed to get back in front and then um forced it up at the end. Um for uh and to be honest, I in no way did we deserve to really win that game. It was uh it was Northampton almost capitulating that um gave us an opportunity there. And then last yeah, it's the first time I've been to a Gloucester game, really home or away, where I've actually gone and thought we have absolutely no chance. And it that that was how bleak it was yesterday. There was a lot of Gloucester fans kind of thinking if we can keep it below 40 points, we'll we would have done well, which we did. Um and yeah, if we could have got a bonus point, it would have been nice. But just overall experience, it's been a decade since I've been down at the wreck, and I'm it I'm not be rushing back to go again. It's a dreadful ground, um pretty average people. Um, no atmosphere, and that was really remarkable. I mean, I I you think for a side as good as Bath R, and it hurts me to say that they're a wonderful side, they've got some fantastic players. Um, and Finn Russell was imperious uh at times yesterday. There was no atmosphere. You could have heard a pin drop. I actually did hear the burger van in the first half. Um it's it's a dreadful place to watch rugby. I mean, I know they've got their they've got their um planning permission in, and I think we were mentioning before we started recording it, it's gonna when they do get it all sorted, it's gonna be a benefit to not just bass supporters, but all supporters of rugby who decide to do go to hand there again. Um, you know, 15 minutes it took me to get out the out of the stand yesterday. So from a health and safety point of view, Krakkie knows what happens if there's an emergency. Just a dreadful place, dreadful place. No redeeming features or qualities at all. Wow, so it was it was worth the money then. Thankfully, I I got a freebie. So I uh that's and that's the only reason I went. It was a freebie, it was a freebie through uh my brother-in-law, who very, very luckily works for um the the title sponsor of the Prem. And um he gets entered into a prize draw, so we got tickets for it through him. But yeah, I wouldn't be spending 100 quid to go and watch to watch rugby there and jog on.
SPEAKER_05:So so you do mention that you've had a bit of a I think you said abject start to the season. And yeah, um, I mean, obviously yeah, interested Bears observers will know that you you lost a few players over the summer. I mean, is that is that the main reason why you think you've started slowly, or or are there are other factors?
SPEAKER_03:I I do think that the the player turnover is definitely has an impact. Um, you know, we by the end of the season, we were playing good rugby throughout the season. I think there was a lot of continuity. Um and we were we were probably missing a little bit of depth in in the in the back three. That's probably where our biggest weakness was at the time. Uh, and what we've done now is we compounded that by having no depth at all at back row. Um uh or we do have depth, but I wouldn't I wouldn't say they're they're really sort of a light for liking quality. And um, you know, that I think in the front row, a bit like bears have got an injury crisis in a few spec in a few uh spots, our front row, we're down to our bare bones already. Um and and that includes some really you know, there's there's certain certain injuries you think, well, what the hell are they doing in training? Um there's other injuries and and and and absences which are far more serious and worrying than the likes of um uh Jack Singleton, who it sounds like he's been stood down for having a cardiac event, and the no specifics around it, but obviously we wish him well. But yeah, it's just it's just been it seems like the the players we brought it in, they're struggling to bed in to the system. Um the defensive systems are all over the place. I mean, it was dog lug central at times against Bath. Um, so um it's heightened up in the second half, and I think you got we have to give them credit that they do seem to be able to adjust, but we're giving teams too much space and too much time. And I think the other the other aspect is obviously we've we brought in um uh Ross Byrne from from Leinster, and there are big things expected, uh, and he just seems to be a bit off the boil. And when and and when your pack is getting beaten up a bit, and I said the line out's just appalling at the moment, but if you're getting if you're getting not a lot of forward ball or or good quality ball, any fly ask going to struggle, but when you're coming into a team new, there's new combinations, um, we've not really had any sort of settled side yet this season. I I think that that's having a big impact. Um and and you could combine all that and then a lack of confidence, it seems to be be the big problem as well.
SPEAKER_05:So uh it seems to me that that what you need is a is a nice easy game to get yourself back on track. So uh Friday, the Bears are rolling into town again. Uh and and I would say that uh we're we may be fairly short of a few players. So genuinely, uh do you actually think that this could be a good game for you, kind of under the lights, the shed on shed baying for blood. You know, Bristol kind of had a reasonable start, but but definitely there for the taking. What how do you see it going?
SPEAKER_03:I I think I think if I was gonna choose one of two sides to be playing at this point, I think Bristol would be one of them. Um just because of the sheer number of injuries and the total and that's a decimation of your squad. I mean it's it's horrible. Um, but as a as a neutral and as a you know, as someone who's who's obviously we've got you this on Friday, it it's good that we're not gonna have to probably face Re Summit and a lot of your other better players. Um and I do have general sympathy here because you know Gloucester aren't that far off in terms of our injury. I think we've got 16 out or something like that. It's absolutely crazy ourselves. We've got so many players out. Um, I think that the difference probably is that a lot of them are fringe players, whereas a lot of the Bristol players are uh are kind of key core players that you're you're you're missing. Um obviously last season we did a real number on you, and I would say that if we can get close to the to the levels we hit last season, I I think I'd be comfortable in us in picking up a win. I think the problem we're facing at the moment is we're giving tides far too much space. I mean, let's say the last two games we've given a 31 and a 28-nil head start to the opposition. We can't do that against Bristol because Bristol will put 50-60 points on us despite your injuries, because you're you know you're that type of team. Um I think I think um again the br probably Bristol winning a scrappy tight game against Exeter probably will do them a good. Whereas Gloucester are kind of still playing the very, very expansive open game, and yeah, we could maybe nick it if we win seven tries to six. But I I would prefer to play a bit more of a measured game um and and play in the right areas. We seem to be still playing a little bit too much barbar's rugby at times. Um but yeah, it's it's I I mean if as I say, Bristol Bristol would always be a challenge, but I think it's gonna be uh from our point of view a case of getting our mindset right. I think people expected, myself included, against Northampton, for us to to roll them over. There we had a very, very sort of weakened second string side, and we just got blasted off the park in the first half against against Northampton. I I would say if we go into the say with the same mentalities, oh well Bristol have got loads of injuries, um, they're down to their bare bones, this should be an easy game. We'll get turned over. We have to go in with the right mentality, we have to go in all guns blazing. And and because I I do worry if we don't beat Bristol on Friday, um, we've then got extra away. And I know extra are very relatively average, but at the moment, but we've got a horrific record against Exeter um uh i i away at Sandy Park, and which is a difficult place to go at the best of times. And I I just think I don't know when the wind coming, where the wind would be coming from. Um I think we've got Quinn's sort of early December, maybe, mid mid-December or something like that. I think that's the next one after that, after because you got the Prem Cup and then um Europeans and stuff. So I I just yeah, I it's I I struggle to see where we would get a win from. So the massive. I would argue if if we want to have any sort of uh anything at all in terms of of later in the season, um, we need to win on on Friday night. And I mean the thing is obviously, Pete, you know, both of you and me we we might be called up at this rate with the number of injuries that we're uh that we're experiencing.
SPEAKER_05:Well, you did say they're short in the front row in both uh.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean they did they'd have to be very desperate to call me up into the front row. Um I think I think there would be probably about there's gonna be eldo pensioners who are gonna be ahead of me to get. I was just thinking of all about weight, you know, and and heft.
SPEAKER_05:You're a pretty slim sort of guy.
SPEAKER_03:That's very kind of you. Thank you, Pete. Thank you very much. That that was the reason I wasn't gonna get in the front row.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, um, well, uh it's gonna be, I think it's gonna be an interesting game, and uh no doubt we will uh we will talk about this uh on the pod after we've inserted your little bit of audio. And uh I'm sure if you're you want to hear what we say, then tune in to Bears Beyond the Gate on Monday and uh find out our thoughts. But I really really appreciate your time. Um, it's always good to talk to you. I know our listeners very much appreciate hearing from knowledgeable opponent fans, and uh we look forward to well, we're coming up actually on Friday, so we we may well see you in the Pelican again like we did last time. Um we're taking our Bears Beyond the Gate flag into the shed as we did last year.
SPEAKER_03:So it got hidden pretty quickly though, didn't it?
SPEAKER_05:Although I've got to say, I did go to the I I did go to the toilet in the first half, came back and then held the the the flat the Bears Beyond the Gate flag up facing the shed and got roundly abused, and that was exactly what I wanted. So it was uh it was a good it was a good laugh. Anyway, on that note, I will say uh bid you farewell and uh look forward to Friday. Yeah, may the best team win. Thanks, Pete. Absolutely, cheers, Ed. Right, so there you go. That was uh that was Ed. Um gave us a pretty honest assessment. I think the irony is that they're in a pretty bad way, but the irony was that he said that probably we were one of the teams they would quite like to face next Friday, given our kind of still. Well, we're in a worse way, yeah. I don't well, I'm not sure in a worse well, who knows? But anyway, injury we have got, I think, as we know, our back line. Although I think forward wise, the glimmer of hope for us was that he was pretty down on the their set piece, their line out apparently looks terrible, and their bat row he didn't have a lot of time for. And and actually I would say those are our two massive strengths at the moment. So that's got to be the target areas for our only strengths at the moment. Yeah, I mean I I think I I think we're gonna I think we're gonna play a pretty dirty, ugly, forward-dominated game. I I don't necessarily think it's gonna involve a lot of kicking, but I just think we're gonna be doing we're gonna be able to folk the forwards are gonna step up and and and dominate, and that's that's the way it's gonna go. So on that note, I reckon we should just have a quick chat about what we think the team is likely to be, which of course is a changing movable feast because we don't quite know about injuries and who may be coming back. But who do you think the any major changes from our starting uh 15 this week for next week?
SPEAKER_06:I mean I I guess the one that stands out is is uh Superman, Mr. Superman, Lua Tua, because um we didn't really know why he wasn't yeah, he wasn't on the injury list.
SPEAKER_05:Do you think he's gonna come in at 10 then? Yeah, probably. And to be fair, he's good that's why he was away. I saw him at Grevel Smythe Park practicing his spiral kicks. That's why Pat gave him the day off.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I mean I I don't know. I could see maybe if he's you know, maybe I don't maybe I'm not normally wrestling, but I guess he is of a certain age now, in rugby terms.
SPEAKER_05:But so he he could be he could come into the back row, couldn't he? I mean Grandona is obviously a seasoned international, but it's almost like we just need somebody who's been there, seen it, and done it over many seasons. Yeah, yeah. So I do think maybe fluster away in there. Yeah, yeah. My only caveat on that is that I just wonder whether the whole when Dunny came on for Rubiola and we had Bats at six, whether we we start with that as a as a combo because it's just a power combo. I like it. Get a lot of scrum pens, you know, get a few line out, get a few balls. There's a bit of filth in there, a bit of filth. Yeah. And bats is I reckon bat I don't know whether how much bats has ever played in the bat row, but he just I just feel like if we're keeping it quite tight as well, he could be uh that could be a you know, I don't think that was ever in the plans, but after that second and final quarter, I just wonder whether Pat would look at that and think that I like the sound of it.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I like it. I mean it I mean if Ed is worried about their scrum, then we should just dominate mentioned about Row absolutely, and we haven't as we know we haven't got many backs in the correct position then.
SPEAKER_05:Fitz obviously guaranteed starter matter. So I quite like the idea of matter at eight, fitts at seven bats at six, and then you know, then you've got and then Dunny and Pedro, you know. Um actually quite excited about it. Yeah and then uh let's just hope that if Genji Should we end it there?
SPEAKER_04:Just play a game of just forwards.
SPEAKER_05:Well, I mean one of our forwards for everything, isn't it? There's an argument to say Joe Owen might end up at outside centre, right? He's got the late, he's got the gas.
SPEAKER_06:He definitely has.
SPEAKER_05:So I think that's right. I think I think forwards that's our one big thing. Could be wrong.
SPEAKER_06:Um I mean it would be nice to go there and play that type of game as well, because I mean we've it's it's not the you know the best hunting ground for us, is it? No, you know.
SPEAKER_05:But you see, so I've got these I've got these images coming to my mind already of of like bats picking and going, and then Dunny coming in, picking and going, and then batter coming in, picking and going, and then Fitz coming in, chicken winging it, and Ogre's there, you know, that just like pick and go, pick and go, punch, punch, punch. Yeah, do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_06:I can see um Calavetti scoring a try there as well. I really can. And I just allowed.
SPEAKER_05:And I just I've got this idea of then Rubiolo just hitting rucks at speed.
SPEAKER_06:And Dunny just almost boiling.
SPEAKER_05:And I I've got this image. I've got this image of another like mall defence or another mall, and then Dunny just turned into Rubiolo and they're just they're just fist pumping like that. Bringing the continents together. Do you know what?
SPEAKER_06:I think Dunny's gonna score a try as well. I feel like I feel like I really feel like Dunny's it's yeah, it's gonna be set up for Dunny to go ahead and front of the shed.
SPEAKER_05:So I think that's that's that sort. And then anything in the backs, I mean the backs is like we're not even sure who's gonna be available, and if they're gonna be. I mean, we obviously know Marmy and Haskell 10 probably's Worsley, unless Louatua fancies it. Or maybe they put a call into John Offoa, come back. Um Yancy Van Rensburg, obviously Bernard at 12, 13. Are we gonna have to put Revolvo back at 13? Because I can't, unless Bates comes back, I can't think of another 13. No, I don't know, to be honest here as well.
SPEAKER_04:Maroney.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, well, of course, yeah. Yes, Miles, well done. Yes. So do we throw him in?
SPEAKER_04:Needs must. I mean, he's been playing.
SPEAKER_05:We just say and we just say to him, look, mate, Matteo, um, we're not really gonna play an expansive game, so all you've got to do is smash anything that you see in front of you. Which you'll love doing. That is a great show. Yeah, and and I think on that basis we won't we will play a very basic game. Yeah, and it will have to and it will smash them in defence and and let's let's not muck around too much with kind of chicken wings round the back looping. If we're not sure, just boot it downfield. Yeah, who have we not asked?
SPEAKER_04:We've got any out and out wingers.
SPEAKER_05:Well, Boschoff could come back in and Pepper, but but not what we might classify who we would have said right at the beginning of the season.
SPEAKER_06:But then if Moroni's playing in the in in the sense of the water, well Revovo would put on the wings because we've got like Thorley potentially to come up against, and we I think he's dangerous, so and then but we see Crystal Loder.
SPEAKER_05:Well, Elisalde, I think 100% all day of every day of the week.
SPEAKER_04:Lena, we don't quite know, he was maybe not fast. Lena's got to be close. Fast forgy pitch, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Not unforgiving to say the least.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, I think I think they'll put Revolvo up against well, yeah, because Thorley is dangerous, he's fast.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but Loader's been good as well. I mean, they're not the the backs are and load I think great.
SPEAKER_06:Although Loader, I think Loader got schooled by Arendor yesterday. Ben Loader is not the player that I thought he would actually train on to be. He's great. Don't get me wrong, he's a great player, but I actually thought he was, you know, potentially he was gonna be a big, big star. Yeah. And I don't think and we've got we've got to say as well, obviously, because Gloucester lost a few big players, haven't we? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we've got to be we've got to be conservatively optimistic.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, we were yeah, we were schooled last year, aren't we? Yeah, primary school teaching. Uh uh, and 100% we've got to we've got to turn that around and go up there and show them, you know, that we can win.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, when when you know, last that lastly, when you know that our Bears Beyond the Gate flag put more of a shift in than any of the players last year, you know it was a bad day in the office, don't you?
SPEAKER_04:So we may not need to roll out the flag this year.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, we'll definitely roll the flag out, Mars. I did it, but your take. Do you know I've not told you what your job is? You've got to I've told you, I've tasked you that you're gonna hold the flag up and walk the whole length of the shed, not just a little section yet. Yeah. Anyway, so I think we're done there. So we we could we'll find out what happens when we go. It's gonna be fun. In case you didn't realise, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:In case you didn't realise, if you know, two-thirds of us will be be at the shed on Friday night with a few few other listeners as well. The flag flags coming.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, the flag's been, and actually we should say the flag has been to Glastonbury since the last time it was at the shed, it's been to Glastonbury, and it's been to Australia. Australia. So uh fair play to the flags, I say. You washed it beef. Uh yeah, yeah. Yeah, gave it a little wash. So, anyway, um that's it. So I think we've got last little bit, finish off. It was like a little bit of AOB. I I'd written three things down. I'm gonna we Dunny and Joe Owen coming to see us in the sports bar rather than us going to see them, was a definite plus. But then when they came to see us, it then made us realise how pathetic and small you are. Like how puny is like don't use the word puny very often, but I I just felt so puny against them. And I just thought I almost said to Dunny, mate, love it, just go now. Just kneel down and just go. We look pathetic amongst you. Anyway, so that was that. Any goats, boys. I mean, like massive goats. Oh yeah. Oh, go on.
SPEAKER_06:Pete, you have this one.
SPEAKER_05:You are so me and Lee at halftime were coming down, we we're going, and somebody comes out of a beer queue, he was that angry, came out of his place in the queue. Yeah, said willing to he wanted to, he said, I've got a goat, I've got your goat off my furious, and I can't I can't remember his name. He'll know who he is. He didn't really want to tell me his lane, he he was an anonymous fury, but he basically, cut a long story short, he'd ordered a home shirt online six weeks ago. Not only has he not had it, he hasn't even had any like correspondence. Now I know that you know these things happen, but it's just a fact. Now I don't know whether that's the same with everybody out there, but this is a this is evidence-based gotary that this bloke said I haven't and I don't even know how to get in contact with anyone to find out. So if anybody is out there at Bristol Sport, there's some poor bloke furious that he hasn't got maybe more than one poor bloke, yeah. So maybe I mean it sounds like they kind of got more stock in now. So hopefully by the time this comes out, he'll he'll have his his shut.
SPEAKER_06:I mean it is frustrating, isn't it? Because like you can see people buying them in the club shop, yeah. And then you know you've been waiting at the time.
SPEAKER_05:And I reckon if Tom was here and we looked Tom in the eye and said, Tom, it's not good, is it? That he would admit it and he'd say, Look, I'm sorry, boys, you know, something's gone wrong, I'll sort this out. So well he was nothing if not honest, was he with us? Absolutely. So that is a massive goat, and then a cut, but then an anti-goat. I don't know what we ever decided what the opposite of a goat is. That what something gets my goat, but what doesn't get my goat. Anyway, roast tinted spectacles. Yeah, give it a go. So uh a couple of things those of you that that read the Bristol Rugby.net forum would have seen that somebody's come on from the uh the supporters advisory committee, they've obviously got some new members and they've had a meeting already. And actually, he said that I wanted to report an update of the meeting, and and we we discussed, and a couple of things the club have done is they've agreed that they're not gonna have smoke anymore. It's always it's gonna be flames now because a few people complained about the smoke.
SPEAKER_04:Well, no smoke this weekend was there? No, no, no, no, it was flames, it was flames, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So that I think that's it. I think the smoke just a a lot of people said it was a bit ironic where it said no vaping and there was a massive smoke.
SPEAKER_06:Me and John Phipps were disappointed in that because you know I it I don't know if you guys read it in the week, but we we posted he posted on um X on Twitter that he loved the smell of it because it reminded me of the old uh the old pop gun.
SPEAKER_05:I did read that, yeah. Yeah, um, but then also about a million people said it gave them asthma attacks, so that was the downside of it as well. Anyway, it's gone, smoke's gone, and also it did kind of just linger for quite a long time and we couldn't see the game, so that's gone. So fair play. Uh second thing, they've decided that they agreed that there shouldn't be any kind of frivolous interludes when there's a serious injury, because we did make the point that when AJ's Achilles went, they then used air, they played they did air guitar camp. And and I think that's been accepted that that was wrong, and they're gonna agree that they will they'll only do that when there's kind of natural breaks in the yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, and then the third thing was a lot of fans have said if you're in the dolman, you can't see a shot clock because the the only shot clock is in the other screen by the Attio, so everybody else can see it. Southstand, Attio, and Landstand, but we can't. So the club have acknowledged that that is a problem, and they're looking at how they're gonna get a shot clock under the screen by the Heineken.
SPEAKER_06:I mean, personally, I wouldn't I'm not that bothered by that.
SPEAKER_04:No, I know that's not massive, is it?
SPEAKER_06:If it if it got really low, then you know I'm sure the Southstand would go, ooh, I mean we'd know somehow.
SPEAKER_05:In fact, in some ways, it's better to have not southstand could be our shot clock. Yeah, and they they've got to like think so. Actually, forget about that club. Don't get a shot clock. Just count, just get the Southstand to count. No, yeah, yeah. So Southstand, that's your challenge. Next home game, I want to hear you counting.
SPEAKER_04:I think that's sufficient.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and then finally, it's not really a goat, but um look a like he can was back on again. Oh, yeah. Did you you it was second half? Did you see it? Was it any good? Do you know it was? Yeah, it was Alan Carr.
SPEAKER_06:It was Alan Carr.
SPEAKER_05:But but he's already been off for the something before because he looked like he was so much I almost thought it was Alan Carr. If he hadn't been in the traitors castle, I would have thought it was Alan Carr. Right. But the bloke was, but the way he looked at the camera, you said you you knew that that he that had happened to him before. Maybe not the rope, but somewhere he'd already been he was I reckon he actually was an Alan Carr looker like and earned money from it. He was that good. It was so but what he should have done, he like he blew it because he kind of coily smiled.
SPEAKER_07:He should have done a big old Alan Carried, he ruined his main man. He should have accepted it.
SPEAKER_05:He had 15,000 people, he could have done a whole oh Alan Carr does. So anyway, fair play to whoever. I'd love to know who's doing that. Like how somebody is there some poor student, but then students don't have that cultural depth to to know what people look like.
SPEAKER_06:It's got to be someone moral and wise like us, us.
SPEAKER_05:I reckon it might be Rich Berry, because he's he's sorted out, he's done all of his safeguarding, he's done his chats, and I reckon they give a little monitor, and his job is to scan the crowd for anybody that looks like anybody, and then gets it up to the media board. It would fit the bill, wouldn't it? Because maybe it's part of his uh his his remit.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, that's let's just say on a positive note, and laughing aside, it's great that we have the supporters advisory groups and that they that the club have engaged and that they've made some changes which fans have agreed, been agreed.
SPEAKER_05:So yeah, full marks, full marks, absolutely. Well, I think on that point we should leave we should leave it on a positive note. Absolutely. So have a good week. Those of you that are going up to the shed will uh we'll we'll all shout out the flag. Look out for the flag or look out for us and give us a big hearty hello. Um, have a good week, and most importantly, or stay safe, and most importantly, one, two, three, up.
