Bears Beyond The Gate
A Bristol Bears podcast made by fans for fans. Each week your hosts Pete, Lee and Miles will take a light-hearted look at developments from Ashton Gate and beyond.
Bears Beyond The Gate
Ep 183 - Leinster 'trip' Bears' first half switch and bench press to victory in the second
In a very short late Sunday night post-match pod Pete and Miles reflect on the defeat to Leinster at a very windy Ashton Gate.
Lets be honest - they were lucky to be 7-7 at the break having lost two men to the bin and struggling to find a way through the Bristol's inspired defence that also had to contend with the loss on AJ MacGinty after 5 mins, and a reshuffle that put BJVR at fly half.
However, they were lucky enough to have both a World Cup winner and runner up on the bench alongside the probable Lions captain so inevitably they ended up winning.
That said, there were many positives to take from the game, not least yet another inspirational performance from Fitz '80 minute' Harding, but ultimately the second half reminded us that if we are serious about going deep in Europe now or in the future, let alone the Premiership, then we need a bigger squad. End of story.
And given the number of injuries we suffered, our trip to La Rochelle next week looks increasing like it might be a re-run of the Charge of the Light Brigade.
But hey, stranger things have happened and we will be eagerly looking forward to Joe Owen schooling Will Skelton and Fitz Harding humbling Gregory Alldritt!
Up the Bears!....
So, Miles, we're back at your place, we're back for the gate. We sadly lost that game 35-12, having been in the game for maybe 52 minutes. It was 7-0 until 52. And, yeah, unfortunately that got away from us. I don't know what are your initial thoughts now that you're at home in the warm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree. I thought we were toe-to-toe with you could argue, one of the best teams in Europe until 52 minutes minutes, but losing AJ McGinty at what? Five, six minutes into the game and Yancey Van Rensburg stepping up into a position which he's you know set up to do.
Speaker 2:But then we were Len lacking in the center, which he's an awesome player at. It was always going to be a tough match, but I'm, you know, pleasantly surprised. We hit 52 minutes in parity'm, you know, pleasantly surprised we hit 52 minutes in parity with, you know, with Leinster. But the benches showed the difference in quality, didn't they, between a side, a premiership side, that has a very reduced salary cap, and a European side, or Irish side, which has a European side or Irish side, which has a cap which is probably three, four times the amounts. And it certainly showed me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I think it's. It did highlight a couple of things like that. I mean it highlighted to me that if we're serious about winning Europe as well as the premiership we we have, we will have to have a bigger squad. So it will be a miracle if we go anywhere in Europe this year. To be honest. I mean, let's be honest, we've lost to Leinster at home. We've got a six-day turnaround La Rochelle with half our team on HIAs. It's not looking good.
Speaker 1:So, having said all that, there was a lot of positives from tonight that may be useful for next season. But you're right, how you can't operate at the highest level, lose your fly half after five minutes and basically not have another fly half, specialist fly half, to take the place. And and as you say, I mean not only was it difficult for for Yancey to Bernard sorry to uh to play in that position and he struggled a little bit with against the wind kicking his in touch, to be fair to him but at the same time we then took away our best inside centre. So and of course, a fly half has a very subtly different sort of game in both in attack and defence, both in attack and defence. And actually, I think the fact that we were still 7-0 until 52 minutes and essentially won that first half and could well have been more than 7-0 ahead kind of shows how well we played, given those challenges we had.
Speaker 1:Let's just quickly go back to the first half, because it was a really it was a really really good first half and, as you say, it started badly. Losing AJ McGinty and when we saw him on the ground, I mean I think most fans knew that the writing was on the wall. It took so long for him to get up. But then we kind of took the game to them, didn't we? And you know we soaked in a bit of pressure from them and then for most of the second half, the second part of the first half we were in there 22 and obviously led to a couple of yellow cards on their behalf and in a way I think we were. It was a shame we only really got seven points from it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, they were potentially.
Speaker 2:I think, I believe they were two men down, weren't they? You know, it's the same 10 minutes of the game. We then subsequently managed to get over the line and score seven points, but after that, as is the Bristol way, we sadly conceded an immediate try, didn't we? Within two minutes? Well, it's a classic case of score and concede, oh, absolutely, which is you know the Bristol way, as it were. But you know, we were seven points apiece, and then I feel like we didn't progress, did we? We didn't push on during that period of their men off the pitch to dominate the game, and that then was really a common theme throughout the rest of the game. They pushed hard, they defended a lot better than the 13 men Got to, you know, got to halftime with seven points apiece, and then, you know, it just got worse down the line. Really, you're right. You know it just got worse down the line, really, you're right. I think I was really pleasantly surprised that we got to halftime and Leinster didn't really appear to break our defence at all.
Speaker 2:They did that, you know, cheeky, you know cheeky sort of seven-pointer that seemed to be scored, but with AJ off and Yancey stepping up, we did brilliantly. Our defence was great, Our attacking you know, we tried to play De Brea's way. They knew their defence was extremely good. It wasn't like playing a quiz of last game. Their rush defence was you know sublime. And we just couldn't, we couldn't break their line um, apart from that, one sort of you could argue lucky try towards halfway yeah, I mean it's.
Speaker 1:It's a real shame. I think you're rightly so. Two couple of things came out that first half number one, our defense was was absolutely rock solid. They, they couldn't find a way through and, and you know, they tried everything. They, they tried to punch holes in it. They, they kicked and we defended everything that was thrown at us and I think on that point I should say someone like fitzharding again, an amazing game it really is. I I genuinely think he's the best number eight in england in terms of what he does, both in defense and attack.
Speaker 1:Played a full 80 as well. Um, but yeah, I mean it's so frustrating. I guess our red zone's efficiency just wasn't as good as theirs. They basically got into our 22 after we scored and then immediately scored. It's like Ian Madigan said when we spoke to him last week was that if Leinster get into your 22, the problem you've got is they're going to get something, and unfortunately they got seven. I mean I know there was a penalty coming and then Prendergast kind of chipped it over towards Rich Lane, who kind of tried to slide in and catch it and kind of bounced it up into their guy's hands.
Speaker 1:I mean we knew a penalty was coming, but if the penalty goes back, at least there's a chance of defending it. And I now, I mean, I now think it's really easy for me to say what he should have done, but in a way he should have just booted it like, booted it half, volleyed it into touch or something like that, just to get it. Yeah, it was unfortunate, but it was. You know, men, when that score, when they scored, and that's. You're never going to win big games if you don't make the most of of your advantage, and then really they.
Speaker 1:I, I suspect what happened is they went into their changing room at half time thinking, boys, we're in a massive game here. These these guys are. They're fearless, they're playing without fear, they're defending without fear, they're attacking without fear, they are pushing us to the limits. We've really got up the game, and it was fairly obvious after half time that not only did they up the game a little bit, but when, of course, they brought on their insane bench. I mean, they started with Geordie Barrett at half time and then they brought Sneyman, kalen Dorris, andrew Porter on a few minutes later. And it's ridiculous, really, I've got to's ridiculous, really I've got to say. Though, one thing I think was a massive turning point wasn't necessarily just that bench that came on, it was that bizarre double yellow card that the ref gave to both the props. So Lahif and Porter I mean Porter came on, gave away a penny and they got yellow carded, and that was it welcome to bear country.
Speaker 1:But it was a weird thing. They got he sent off both the props. So then both teams had to bring on new props and then had to decide who to sacrifice. So Leinster sacrificed Jack Conan, so they took a forward off and Bristol sacrificed Ravobo. So completely different strategy and of course I guess our strategy was we'll keep it tight for a bit. And I think we got a line out, we had a rolling ball and then we lost possession and then of course, then when we lose possession we're in trouble because they got one more in the back line and ironically they go and score pretty much score two tries, I think.
Speaker 1:Brendarendergast and then Geordie Barrett scored and then, of course, at the same time, they had Doris, and, and, well then, they had Doris on and then they had van der Vlaar, who'd been on the whole time, so you're talking a back row of van der Vlaar and Doris got Geordie Barrett. The fact that we weathered the storm really a little bit and only conceded 35 points and managed to score at the end was actually massive credit to us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, I mean, you know, I mean looking at the bigger picture. You're absolutely right, the, you know, the Leinsters of this world. They've got, you know, half the squad is Irish internationals, as we, you know, have hinted, the salary cap is huge, you know, massive compared to the premiership side. And then, in addition to that, they've, they've signed an all-black yeah they just bring in and you know you might say that.
Speaker 2:You know, geordie barrett was on the bench. They brought him on in a floating position amongst the backs, but he just showed his quality he scored a try he flipped up and scored, you know um and allowed another try. That is just the quality he brings and we're just not, you know, haven't just got the depth.
Speaker 2:Really we can face up to you know fantastic premiership sides and we we've learned now this season to sort of play the bristol bears way. But if we're going to compete in Europe, I fear that any English side now this season looking over the whole weekend potentially is not going to progress past even the quarter or the semifinals. We just have not got the depth in squads, in English rugby, in money or talent to beat the likes of Leinster. I mean, you know, they're runners-up in the last three years, they're championship winners.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's absolutely brilliant that you go to Ashton Gate, as we tonight, and you see half the Ireland squad coming and that's the first time we've seen these such big names play Ashton Gateett in the European Cup and it's brilliant. That's what fans we wanted, that's what Pat wanted, that's what the squad wanted. That's why we are at the top level in the Champions Cup, but it's just another level in which we just didn't quite on the night you know 52 minutes plus, have the oomph to get over the line.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean some people might point out to the fact that northampton beat munster last year and harlequins went to bordeaux and beat them, but I think that was just moments. That was one of things. I think you're right. We're english clubs are going to struggle in in europe and I think our biggest problem now is that we don't want to repeat of what happened last year, where we end up going out in both cups in one game.
Speaker 2:And we don't end up in anything.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know it sounds a bit depressing, but I think realistically. Now we're probably looking at having a little go at the Challenge Cup and that's pretty, you know, that's a very early prediction.
Speaker 1:But having said all, that that got to focus on the positives because there were a lot of positives absolutely and given the context of what we've said, uh, I think a lot of people came away from that game saying, uh, saying that you know, leinster knew they were in a game.
Speaker 1:I think we spoke to a few leinster fans afterwards and they were very, they were very positive about the whole experience, about coming to Ashton Gate, and one guy said, yeah, bristol is is his second favourite team because he they knew how he wanted to play. And the fact that we didn't compromise on that game plan showed, showed, you know, like you remember a few years ago when we, all we can, moaned about the fact we always tried to change our game plan when Saracens came to try and play like Saracens did and it never worked. I think that's such a sea change this season is we have our own game plan and we follow it through and for 55 minutes it worked tonight. And if we had not lost AJ McGinty and if we had a proper backup fly half, who knows what might happened? So I think we have to be really positive about it. And again, people like James Dunn, joe Owen, jack Bates, rich Lane, they all stepped up against these serious, serious players. So it was kind of 15,000.
Speaker 2:It's a shame.
Speaker 1:I mean it is a shame We've got a 27,000-seater stadium yeah, and we get scheduled on a shame. We've got a 27,000-seater stadium yeah, and we get scheduled on a Sunday afternoon or Sunday evening. But I still think could they have done more to get more people there? Could they have given away a load of free tickets, or given away £10 tickets to the Atio just to get more atmosphere?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:Just to even give kids the opportunity to see some of these amazing players. I mean, you know, some of us can't afford to go to World Cup or go to Twickenham for Autumn International, so we don't get to see the likes of Geordie Barrett or Caelan Dorris that often. So I just do wonder whether we could have done a bit more to try and fill a few gaps. But you know, I don't want to be negative. I think it showed us that we are at the top table. We deserve to be.
Speaker 1:I suspect that, given the fact we're going to be bolstering the squad next season with Ruby Olo, we've signed Tom Jordan and I think people like Jack Bates, rich Lane, joe Jenkins, james Dunn, joe Owen and Fitz Harding to be honest, honest they know they can compete at this level and in a year's time they're going to be a year stronger, a year more experienced. So I now think that actually our real reality is, if we're going to make a real assault on the champions cup, it's probably going to be next year we, just we, because in a way, what we did tonight is we played our game plan against a team that was a notch up from Harlequins.
Speaker 1:And it actually showed that you're going to have to be a little bit smarter and a little bit cleverer about how to use it. And of course we've got to say the conditions didn't help either. That's not going to help. We probably didn't appreciate that where we were sat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was flipping, cold, wet and windy, wasn't it? We were playing against the wind in the first half. You know, bernard had sort of you know kick on his right foot to some left-handed kicks, but he was trying to slice it from the right-hand side with his right foot.
Speaker 1:I said to you all the way through, like why is Rich?
Speaker 2:Lane, not taking it with a left-footer. That was a bit odd.
Speaker 1:It felt as though there was a bit of no one quite knew what to do in that situation, and I mean the poor bloke he was trying to kind of spin it sideways off at the outside of his boot, you know you're right.
Speaker 2:We were trying to play the Bristol Bears way, the way we played last Friday against Quinns, and it came off against a team that don't play the way Carla Quinns do. We were having to adapt somewhat, kick it somewhat.
Speaker 1:I mean, prendergast was just great wasn't he, such a young lad his sort of kicks.
Speaker 2:Some of them were a bit giffy but he was pretty much, I thought, playing with a match. I thought he was a match but he was doing some great kicks down. We were having to defend, run from long period, run from the back in the 22 into a great defence that we were just not penetrating at all and it's just not the way we play. You could have argued we had to try and adapt against a European in our own side kicking over the top, but nothing was really working and that's just a testament. Really. You know, we've been there, we tried it and we know what we need to do, potentially next season with a different squad, If we're going to face these big European sides. It's not premiership and the style of play potentially has to just alter somewhat on the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think the thought of going to La Rochelle on Saturday. But, as Pat said, in his post-match interview, he said, you know, he kind of snorted and laughed when he said we've got a six day to La Rochelle. But then he also said, you know, when he said we've got a six day to La Rochelle, but then he also said this is where we've got to be. We have to be here and we have to experience this, and with a better squad, who knows. But actually a couple of people had put some stuff on Twitter. Actually, just to finish off, there is an argument to say that we might need to buy in an emergency flyer for the next month.
Speaker 1:And again it comes back to our little thoughts about DMACC. End of the season, new Zealand, offer him a bit of cash for a month, say come over to Europe for a month. Damien McKenzie for those who don't know what I'm talking about, he's the sort of player that would slot in quite quickly. But seriously, if AJ's on an HIA for a week or two, we haven't really got any options.
Speaker 2:He's going to be missing La Rochelle next season next week's away for sure.
Speaker 1:We can't go to La Rochelle without a recognised 10. I mean, it's insane.
Speaker 2:It's insane. You know, we don't know how far off Worsley is from coming back.
Speaker 1:But you know, and out and out number 10. With even one 10. We need to go with two 10s.
Speaker 2:But how do we turn that around? I?
Speaker 1:don't know.
Speaker 2:With loan signing inside of a six-day turnaround. Well, I'll tell you what you do is you get on the phone.
Speaker 1:Pat will be on the blower tomorrow and he'll have his checkbook out and it'll be a very simple conversation. It's like we need you. This is how much it's going to cost.
Speaker 2:Job to cost job done. Yeah, can you fly?
Speaker 1:in on monday, which is to analyze the game and get you in playing for saturday.
Speaker 2:At the corner phrase, it's going to have to be someone who's oven ready and, uh, who knows, who knows there's a few ex-bristol players who potentially oven ready, but they potentially you know sign for other clubs, haven't they have? No, this is the problem I don't, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, if they're in contract, what? What can we do it's? I don't know. I mean I was just thinking Caleb Muntz, he's with the Drua. I can't. They're not playing at the moment.
Speaker 2:So are you allowed to?
Speaker 1:buy someone out their contract.
Speaker 2:It's almost a shame that, like Tiff Eden, signed that little short term contract with Saracen.
Speaker 1:Good point. Tiff Eden, who knew the Bristol game, could have done a job for us, couldn't he anyway?
Speaker 2:well, we will see the team sheet on Friday for the for the away leg at La Rochelle next week. We wish fans well who are playing on travelling to La Rochelle next week. It's not the easiest to get to, so hats off to those who are making the effort.
Speaker 1:On that note away fans. It was great to see all the Leinster fans with. Leinster flags Because as soon as they scored. Obviously it took a long time for those flags to be shown, but when those flags came up and it made me think, like you know, big game like that, why didn't we have any flags?
Speaker 2:Why couldn think, like you know, big game like that? Why? Why didn't we have any flags? Why couldn't? Why couldn't actually get? Why couldn't we have some flags under the chairs? I don't know if it's cost-saving measure, but many moons ago there were flags on every seat. Yeah, big games. This is our first big european campaign of the season, why, why?
Speaker 1:didn't they make an effort with the new, the?
Speaker 2:kit for the European game the red on the black. Yeah, we could have had in every single seat, I know it's.
Speaker 1:I feel like French teams would have would have done that, yes, but we had quite a good light show yeah, we had a good light show, but you know, it was almost like they out did us as a way.
Speaker 1:They'd obviously were quite coordinated, they'd obviously decided all to have at my but just a thought, and at 15 000 a little bit disappointing, but that's still 15 000 people, technically, that were there, which is a bad, you know, that's not bad for a sunday night, uh, on a rainy, windy night in bs3. So, mate, you just yawned there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's getting a bit late.
Speaker 1:I think it's not been. It's not a long pod, but I just we felt that we ought to put something out and, I'm sure, if only just for a few people just to to listen and relive their own thoughts of the game.
Speaker 2:Something to do on a Monday morning, yeah.
Speaker 1:I can't apologise. Not many gags, not many belly laughs.
Speaker 2:No Berlin time in the house.
Speaker 1:But I feel kind of excited about the fact that I've actually seen some proper international players in the flesh that I don't get to see because I can't afford to go to Twickenham or I can't afford. I haven't got the time or the money to go to World Cup, so I'll cherish that. I'll also cherish the fact that I believe that fitzharding is the best number eight in the country. If, if people don't start talking about him at england level, then yeah, like the game's gone yeah what an absolute legend.
Speaker 1:So, and also one other thing I'd like to say, it was great to see harry coming back.
Speaker 1:He's been away with england for god knows how long he's probably box kicking boring structure, that first half, the way he was skipping over players to get to the ruck. He was loving it because he hasn't done any of that for the last month. So it was great to see Harry back, great to see him giving his effort, giving his all, skipping over bodies. The only other thing I'd mention is the ref. I mean we were quite pleased, great to see him giving his effort, giving his all, skipping over bodies. The only other thing I'd mention is the ref. I mean we were quite pleased with the ref in the first half because he gave us a lot of penalties. But, as I said to someone, he was a bit like a kind of Mr Bean character. I'm sure it was because he's French and obviously not many of the players could speak, but he was really overemphasizing a lot of his decisions with hand signals.
Speaker 1:His hand gestures were out of this world, but he kind of strutted around and then the two liners just didn't look that they were right. They were both in tights and they both sort of seemed a little bit unathletic.
Speaker 2:But you know we got to play these things.
Speaker 1:We did actually see the ref as he left through the sports bar and I gave him a little merci, merci, au revoir, and he seemed quite happy. He seemed quite happy that he got at the end of the day boys have got to do a job, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:You know, in France next week we'll probably get an international ref of a different calibre, won't we?
Speaker 1:we'll see and in the first half he did alright for us. On that note, the Mr Bean-esque French ref is a nice place to finish this podcast so au revoir au revoir, stay safe. My A-level French is gone. It's too late on a Sunday night and up the bears, up the bears.
