Bears Beyond The Gate
A Bristol Bears podcast made by fans for fans. Each week your hosts Pete, Lee and Miles will take a light-hearted look at developments from Ashton Gate and beyond.
Bears Beyond The Gate
Ep 182 - Ian Madigan talks to the boys about Life, Leinster and Loving the Bears!
To mark the European heavyweights from Dublin's visit to Ashton gate on Sunday, former Bristol Bear and Leinster player Ian Madigan joins us for an episode packed with insights and nostalgia.
He shares treasured memories from his time at Bristol, revealing what it was like to play under Pat Lam's leadership and how it shaped his approach to rugby. We also talk about Ian's transition to life off the field, where he's now navigating the worlds of television and marketing, and the exciting news of expecting his first child.
Plus, Ian spills the beans on Leinster's strategies ahead of their Champions Cup face-off with the Bears, giving fans something to chew on before the big game.
And he thinks Jordie Barrett will play.
Ever wondered what goes into making a rugby commentator tick? We also discuss the art of punditry with Ian as he outlines the delicate balance between live analysis and setting expectations pre-match. Ian reflects on his journey from Bordeaux to Bristol, motivated by Pat Lam's compelling team vision, and shares insights into the changing dynamics between top leagues and the English championship. His anecdotes about building a team from the ground up offer a rare glimpse into the challenges and rewards of creating a winning dynamic, even if that meant playing in driving snow at Rotherham in front of one man and his husky.
So grab a pint of the dark stuff (Guinness or even BBF nitro stout) and join us for a stroll down memory lane as Mads takes us through unforgettable moments with the Bristol Bears, highlighting the camaraderie and mentorship that defines the sport, the competitive edge between the Pro 14 and the English Premiership, and the pressures faced by coaches in these high-stakes environments.
As we wrap up with anticipation for the upcoming Leinster match, it's clear that the ties within the rugby community run deep, and the bonds formed on and off the pitch are what truly make the journey worthwhile.
Cheers to the weekend and the enduring spirit of rugby!...
Up the European bears!
you're listening to bears beyond the gate, a bristol bears podcast made by fans for fans, with three season card holders at ashton gate. You love the club, the game and all things bears. Well, this is something a little bit different a midweek pod, but to mark the start of the champions cup and the arrival of heavywe Leinster to the gate, we managed to secure an interview with ex-Bristol Bear, ex-leinster, ex-ireland and general all-round good guy, ian Madigan. Miles.
Speaker 1:Me and Lee managed to catch up with him earlier on tonight and had a fascinating chat with him about his time at the Bears, what he's been doing since he retired, his thoughts on the way that we're playing this season and, of course, his insight into the sort of team that Leinster are going to bring on Sunday and the game plan that they will try to execute. It was a great chat. We really appreciate the time he gave up, so sit back, listen and enjoy, okay, so I'm really excited to invite and welcome I should say, uh former bristol player ian madigan to bears beyond the gate. So, mad sir, really really appreciate you coming on and, uh, thanks for coming to talk to us, are you well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, delighted to be on. Guys great to meet you in person, pete Miles and Lee delighted to come on. I absolutely love my three years playing for playing for Bristol and at the midpoint we turned into the Bears. But yeah, fond memories from my time there still follow the club really closely and friends with lots of the players still. So, yeah, delighted to come on and share my thoughts ahead of the game this weekend.
Speaker 1:Oh, brilliant. Well, no, we really appreciate it and I mean, that is one of the reasons why we got in contact with you as a former Leinster player. We were going to ask you for some of your insight for the game on Sunday, but I just thought actually for our listeners, because there'll be a lot of fans out there that will remember you fondly. Obviously, you left us I think it was 2020 you left the Bears and obviously had a little bit of a. You extended your career at Ulster for a little bit and then then retired in 2023. So I was wondering if you could just give us a quick kind of whistle-stop tour of your life since you left Bristol, what it was like playing at Ulster and then why you decided to retire and what you're doing now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I had three years with Ulster. We nearly got over the line, winning the league one of the years just fell short in the semifinal and good first season after having left the Bears play, I think about 20 times times. And then the two seasons after that played, you know, between five and ten times each of those seasons and, um, the younger guys were beginning to pass me out at a rapid rate and the body was creaking a bit um, um. So, yeah, I felt it was, it was the right time for me to to call it and um, you know, I turned professional pretty young, so I'd had a good 13, 14 years at it at that stage and played a lot of games, so ready for the next stage of life, um, so now I'm working for um, I work on the tv with premier sports, who cover uh, and virgin, who cover large parts of it in ireland, whether it's the urc or champions cup or some of the internationals with with virgin.
Speaker 2:And then my day job is with the data ships where I head up a sales team there. Uh, we do marketing compliance for e-commerce stores where we sit at the checkout. Um, and, yeah, from a family point of view, my wife anna, who was with me in bristol's. Uh, we're expecting our first baby in the next month, so, uh, exciting times on that front well, congratulations, great cheers, guys.
Speaker 1:Thank you, we've, we've, uh, we've all got well. We've got two daughters each, because that's how we know each other through our kids. So, uh, no way, they're all about kind of 15. So, uh, we know what you've got coming. But uh do you know what you're having no, we've left it a surprise.
Speaker 2:So yeah, we'll find out soon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, good luck with it all. Anyway, let's move on. Let's talk rugby. So I thought we'd actually then go back to the present and obviously we've got this massive game coming on Sunday Bears in the Champions Cup but I've drawn Leinster at home. I mean obviously you as a former Leinster at home, I mean obviously you as a former Leinster player. You know, have some real and I punned it, as you said. You know we'll have some real insight. Obviously we are rugby fans as well as Bears fans. So it's a slight trepidation that we're looking forward to Leinster coming, but I'm just interested in your thoughts. You know the Autumn Internationals are now finished. Players are back with their clubs. You know players are back with their clubs. You know what? What should us fans expect on Sunday in terms of the sort of team Leinster might put out and and the sort of game plan they might execute?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, I think, first off, you know, as Bristol fans and I think all four of us are still Bristol fans, uh, I certainly am anyway. So this is what you want. You want the best teams coming to Ashton Gate. You want to be, you know, coming and watching DePont and Toulouse, and you know Caelan Dorris from Leinster and you know Jack Crowley from Munster, like that's what's going to draw a big, big number. You want to compare yourself to the best and you know, for the Irish teams, I'll tell you what it is a big.
Speaker 2:It is always a step up from the urc to europe. Whereas when I played in france, when it was a top 14 week versus a european week, you wouldn't necessarily notice a massive change, um, from week to week, because they want to win the top 14 as bad as they want to win europe. Quite often, um, it does vary slightly from club to club. Ronan O'Gara is certainly changing that mindset in La Rochelle, but if you offered a Leinster player, would you like a URC championship or would you like to win the European Champions Cup? They would take the European Champions Cup every day of the week. Pat certainly changed that focus in the Bears when I was there. He put a good focus on Europe, albeit, look, we were competing in the Challenge Cup. But he he certainly put a big focus in my last year there and he made it clear I really want to win this competition, and full credit to to Bristol.
Speaker 2:We did, you know, and um, I was part of that before we got broken up by COVID. Um, but it was great to see the team uh, winning that and, like you think of the, the progression that bristol have had over the last few years. Like when I was there we were obviously in the championship in my first year. I remember lenster a coming over and playing the bristol first team. I didn't play in that game, I think I was injured at the time and, um, I think lenster a won the game, you know, and they did a good side with lots of young players. Like we're now competing with the top teams in Europe, like that's how much the club has progressed. You know we're sitting at the very top or I think it's maybe a point off of the English Premiership and we've earned the right. You know, to compete with the very best From Leinster's standpoint, like playing Bristol this week is, you know, to compete with the very best From Leinster's standpoint, like playing Bristol this week is.
Speaker 2:You know, europe is done in blocks. It's a two game block. They've got Bristol away and they've Claremont at home. Like Leo Cullen will be looking at Bristol away and going that is a banana skin. That is going to be a really tough game. I need to get my big guns out for that. And I fully expect him to be asking caitlin doris and um josh vanderfleer and porter. He'll be saying to these guys look, I need you this week and I may be able to rotate you out for claremont next week. And you, look, I'll get you a rest over christmas at some stage, whether it's boxing daying Day or New Year's Day, you will get a breather. But I'm telling you that Leinster are taking this game really seriously and they're going to have all the big guns out this weekend.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah that's kind of it, that is exciting.
Speaker 1:But I mean, no, you're right, you're absolutely right. I mean this is kind of you know why we're fans. But I mean you're right, you're absolutely right. I mean this is kind of you know why we're fans. We want the big clubs to come and it has taken a couple of seasons for us to feel like we're getting back to that stage again, after the kind of excitement post-COVID. I mean, geordie Barrett, do you have any insight, knowledge, do you think he's going to play?
Speaker 2:I think Geordie plays. Yeah, I think he will most likely play on the right wing, would be my shout. I think they're going to want him to get up to speed on the attacking systems. The defensive systems build his cohesion as a player. What I can guarantee you that he will offer on the wing is he's fantastic in the air, he kicks the ball well and he's going to be rock solid in defence. So you can fit him in there seamlessly, whereas fitting him in at 12, there's a lot more to learn, a lot more cohesiveness that that that he needs to bet in um. The other option is that they play him number 23, for example, and they use him on the 50 minute mark, depending on how the game is going um, and it will. It will be dependent on how well he's settled in, like if he's, if he's firing on all cylinders and he's fully fit, they will, they will roll him in um yeah well, let's hope he's firing on all cylinders and he's fully fit.
Speaker 1:they will roll him in. Yeah Well, let's hope he's been watching the videos of Gabs. Ibitoyi and also Joe Owen. Yeah. Our young lad was on the wing against Quinns and skinned their winger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, quick question why wasn't Ibitoyi included in the English squad? I know he played in the A game, but it just didn't make sense to me. Boys, you know.
Speaker 1:Boy. Has he got any ideas on that?
Speaker 3:Well, I think just at the beginning part of the season, I think defensively there was probably a couple of question marks, but I think he's definitely ironed that out of his game and, like Pat said on the weekend, he gives England a different option, something special, and I don't know why he's not in that squad now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you're right. I feel like people just don't know how to play him anymore. He's improved under the high ball, so I mean surely moving forward, he's got to be up there for contention, I agree.
Speaker 3:The trouble is for Baris, his remit for Baris. He's the lone ranger, he's the free man, so he's so hard to defend against. But he won't get that in an England shirt and that's the problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, and that's fair. But yeah, I'd love to see him playing for England. Absolutely Himself and Mbosa would be a good combo.
Speaker 1:Just going back to your comment that you obviously are doing some work for previous sports as well. I mean, are you coming to the game on sunday as a pundit, or is that? Uh, is that still under wraps?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, I was. I was supposed to be doing the, uh, doing the commentary, which I was really looking forward to, but, as it transpires with with anna, it's just, it's too close. I I would have had to fly out, I think, on a saturday evening and fly back on a monday, so, uh, we had to make the executive decision, which was the tough one, uh, not to do it. So I think that it could be imminent, so, um, but yeah, look, well, I'll be there. I'll be there for the return fixture and I'll make sure to do bristol justice when I'm on the comms there I was going to say you might be there.
Speaker 1:you know when we get there, when we get there, but anyway, that too. I've got one last question before I move over to Miles. It's just about the punditry actually, because obviously, as you say, you've got a day job and you know it sounds great. But when you do do a game, I mean, how much prep are you expected to do and kind of what's the process? Do they expect you to do kind of a lot of analysis up front or do you just basically just wing it?
Speaker 2:No, I've always been more on the analysis side and the preparation side. It depends. I do both the punditry or the commentary. So the commentary if you're with the league commentator, like they're going to know you know the centre's granny's name and how many caps they've got, like that's not my job, you know, and they're typically commentating when the ball is in play. When the ball's out of play, and the irish commentators have a slightly different structure to the, the english ones and, um, the likes of flatman and austin healy have a different style again, um, who are fantastic, by the way um, but so I would typically come in when ball is out of play.
Speaker 2:I'm in explaining what happened or what I expect to happen. You know how teams are setting up defensively and and that stuff comes to me quite naturally, like I can see it and I can commentate it. There's not a whole lot of prep needed for that. But for the punditry, like the 30 or 40 minutes before a match, like that's probably the toughest part of it, because half time looks after itself with the tries that are scored or who has played. Well, same with post-match, but 40 minutes beforehand you're teeing up what you expect to happen and I think if you wing that, you get found out, you need to have some packs.
Speaker 2:You know, this is how bristle have been attacking this season the variation they've shown in their game and you're teeing up what the people watching the game are expecting to see then off the back of it. So I enjoy it Like I've learned a lot. I've obviously been doing it now for the guts of two years and learned a huge amount and they're great Like they give you feedback on what's what they like and what they don't like and don't be vanilla and um. These are the stats packs and um. So, yeah, learn. It's still learning a lot to learn nice one.
Speaker 1:Well, miles I'll pass over to you. Now you can ask yeah, I'll ask a few questions.
Speaker 4:Thanks, man. So let's sort of step back in time a bit, uh, way back to the start of the patlam era, uh, you know, as soon as it became the Bears. I just wondered how did that signing come about, and how on earth did he persuade you to come over and play in what was the championship then?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, as I'm sure you guys have come to learn, Pat is a pretty compelling guy. You know I'd like to have him on my sales team if I could. You know he just put together a good case. Look, ultimately I'd obviously come from playing in Leinster, gone to Bordeaux on a two-year deal that year.
Speaker 2:The second half of it it started to kind of fall apart. I got injured, the team had lost form. I think they were on to their third coach in the year and Pat basically reached out and said look, I'm moving from Connacht to Bristol. This is the vision that I have. I think we're going to be sitting at the top table. It's going to obviously take us a year to get there back into the premiership. This is the new facility that we're building. The likes of luke morahan are going to sign steve, steve luatua, chris vuitton, um john afoa. You know like it was. It was a pretty compelling case and it was do you want to come and be part of a, you know, a journey onto something special? And I believed him when he pitched it and, as it transpired, he was true to his word. I would have liked to have played more, especially in the last year of my Bristol contract, but I certainly don't regret making that decision. I love my time at the club and um. It was a journey yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 4:I mean, you know what was that first season? Like we were playing at some uh pretty small grounds around around england, weren't we? And something? I mean we went up to heartbury. That was pretty tough going, just getting in and out for fans. I mean, did you enjoy going back to that sort of level of rugby or was it a bit of a step down from what you had been playing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like there's no getting away from it. It was a big step down. I think Ireland were competing for a Grand Slam game or a final game to win a Six Nations, and I was playing up north, I think it was. Maybe could have been Doncaster Actually it wasn't Doncaster, because Doncaster is actually pretty nice compared to some of the other places we've played. Doncaster is actually lovely, but where were we playing?
Speaker 4:Did you play the match where it was snowing pretty much? Yeah the snow, yeah that was the.
Speaker 2:Where was that again?
Speaker 4:I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to think somewhere out there yeah, it'd be somewhere like, yeah, the North West, but it was the worst conditions we should have done.
Speaker 4:We should have done our research our research on that, absolutely, but yeah.
Speaker 2:So I remember and, like I was playing in front of you know a man and a dog that day Ireland are competing to win the Six Nations. You're still thinking you're at the foundations of a game plan that was going to see us through. You know, climbing up the premiership table, um, and hopefully trying to compete in europe, and um, look, you're going on the road. You're, you're winning most weeks, if not close to every week. Um, you're in training. You're building week on week, as opposed to if you're in you know a top league and you're winning one week, losing another week. You're in training, you're building week on week, as opposed to if you're in, you know a top league and you're winning one week, losing another week. You're always kind of creating a game plan to just get you over the line each week, as opposed to having 12 months to really build a system that you can rely on.
Speaker 2:And ultimately we did that and like it was an achievement, um, finishing. I think it was seventh or eighth where we finished in my first year in the premiership um, off the back of bristol, being typically a yo-yo team get promoted, get relegated, get promoted, get relegated. Um, and yeah, being part of that was, was, um, was, enjoyable yeah, great.
Speaker 4:I mean, what were your sort of memorable moments in a Bristol shirt?
Speaker 2:Well, that one, getting the snow in was certainly a memorable one. Like that year in the championship, while we had some real superstars, there was other really good teams and it wasn't a formality that we were promoted. We nearly lost I. I remember the first game of the season and then it still came down to Ealing were particularly good that year still came down to a crunch game where we got over the line away from home and I remember like even just getting into the last 20 minutes of the game we were within a score with lots of teams like we scraped through some of those games and that was. They were fond memories.
Speaker 2:Um, and then getting into the premiership, like I remember earlier on in that premiership season coming up against like the likes of quins at home, lester at home, like they were the like I always followed the english premiership when I was a kid and like they're the teams I wanted to be playing against week in, week out, if I I wasn't playing interprovincial games. And yeah, we trashed Leicester and we beat Quinns pretty well and yeah, we hit a bit of a mid-season slump, but that was to be expected. It was a big step up physically and mentally for the entire squad and I certainly wore a bit of that myself. And then in the latter years, like kicking, kicking winners against saris was was pretty special and, um, saints, I think I got, yeah, got got one as well. So like when you get on the end of them, like you need a lot to go your way and a bit of luck as well, uh, but you never forget those moments, you know, and um, yeah, so moving on, but maybe linked to that kicking.
Speaker 4:I mean, when you kick off the tee, um, we always joke that it was good and you would immediately turn away and start running back. Uh, so we actually assumed that the kick was good and you'd won the ball. I mean, was that something you developed or did it ever go wrong, as much as it was a gust of wind that blew it sideways at all?
Speaker 2:I think with goal kicking, you know, it's largely down to how much time you put into it, especially in the early part of your career. But there does come a point where you go you know what. I think I figured this out, you know, and that moment definitely did hit for me, probably during my. I didn't have it in Bordeaux. I was a good goal kicker but it wasn't like I didn't have to see where the ball was going. There was times when I was playing for Bristol and I just had total confidence in what I was doing off the tee and, yeah, it was a nice feeling and the way we played as well. The goal kicking was important because we certainly weren't scoring tries the way.
Speaker 4:Bristol. Well, there were some close games where you saved our bacon on many occasions. I think most fans will remember absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry, the other thing I should have said, another thing I got massive satisfaction out of through my time in Bristol, was mentoring some of the younger players, the likes of Johan Lloyd Lloyd in particular, callum Sheedy, you know, and going on to see him become an international. The likes of Matt Prothero at times, you know, harry Randall the success he's had with England. Andy Wren, going over to Treviso. There was a lot of guys who were actually, you know, they were nearly probably the guts of 10 years younger than me and I'd had some good experiences leading into that and was certainly able to help them out and, yeah, still in contact with a lot of those guys.
Speaker 1:Shall, we Lee. Do you want to dive in?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's actually just. That's seamlessly fitted into what I was just going to ask you actually, Because we interviewed Callum Sheedy and Dan Thomas last week and Sheeds was actually saying about that he found it more difficult to play, you know, in the Pro 14 than it was in the English Premiership. What were your experience of that, Matt, Would you?
Speaker 2:agree with that. It helps if you're playing for lenzer as opposed to cardiff, like lenzer's squad depth is just incredible. Like they've um, I think that the guts of 45 senior players but the quality of those senior players is top-notch, and then supplementing that is 25 academy players that I'd like to think would make the 45 of any other European squad, maybe barring the likes of Toulouse, La Rochelle, Saris. So the reality is, with the URC you've got the Munster Leinster is. With the URC you've got the Munster Leinster, the South African sides and then one of Edinburgh and Glasgow. Depending on a given season, they are strong, really strong.
Speaker 2:Ulster can have, you know, not at the moment but in previous seasons certainly a top 18.
Speaker 2:They may still be this year, but they'll be scraping into it.
Speaker 2:And then you know you'll typically have one Welsh side and this year it's Cardiff who are the strong Welsh side.
Speaker 2:But the difference between the top half of the table and the bottom half of the table in the URC is massive, whereas if you look at the Premiership now, every team on a given week can beat each other. I know you could say look, Exeter and Newcastle are a bit weaker this season, but they'll still get their scalps this year and you know you'll find next year they could suddenly be a top four team, you know, and the salary cap is great for that. In the premiership, you know, every team is operating a salary cap in around five or six million I'm not sure what exactly it is now but the or six million, I'm not sure what exactly it is now. But the reality is, in the URC, the budget that Leinster has versus what Zebra have, it's no wonder that Leinster are always going to be top two and Zebra are always going to be bottom two, because the resources they have is probably 5x or 10x, you know, and that's probably the big difference between the two leagues.
Speaker 3:I mean on that basis. I mean, obviously you've said, like you've watched the Bears at times this season, I mean we are playing some incredible rugby, the best rugby we've ever seen in our lifetime. I mean it's high quality, high tempo. But do you feel in Europe we can sustain that? You know, is there a? You know, is there a league title back home? You know, home on the shelf, waiting for us? What do you think from your perspective now, outside, looking in?
Speaker 2:I certainly think the game plan is sustainable to win the Premiership this year. There'll be no Irishman happier than myself if you do. The reality is, with the way you're playing it's not like you're just, you know, throwing caution to the wind, like it's technically really impressive what you're doing, like if you look at how your pods are operating off nine. It's not like it's just this crazy loose passing. It's the variation. You can still play it tight, but then there's other times when you'll stretch that shape out. You might sense that the defence aren't coming up. Now's the time that we can stretch that shape and pull it out the back and play that kind of double-double shape that Bristol have always done really well, with players tucked and turning around the corner late, where it's very hard to pick them up from a defensive perspective. To be able to play that game requires a huge amount of work and training and you also need to do it for a long time and fail at it for a long time before it starts to click. Bristol, for a large part, have been playing that way for the last probably five or six years, barring maybe one season where they they kind of changed and the wheels started to come off and I like, from looking from the outside in, I'm sure Pat came under a bit of pressure and it looked like to me he goes. You know what I'm under pressure here. But if I'm going to go out, I'm going to go out my way and we're going back to the Bristol way and the Pat Lamb way of playing what's in front of you, and that is you can go through a team, you can go over a team, you can go around a team, you can beat a team at your kicking game. Play what's in front of you. And it looks like Bristol are doing that and doing that really well.
Speaker 2:On the point of like, how are they going to fare up against Leinster? Leinster are, um, a side that can also play lots of different ways, but typically when they're playing away from home in Europe they're going to play in the right areas. So if Bristol are going to do it, they're going to have to do it from deep and if they make a mistake, leinster are going to make them pay big time. Because if you make a mistake 20 or 30 meters out from your try line, that's three points, five point, seven points. Each mistake you always pay. When you're paying a side, like lenster, you make a mistake in your own half.
Speaker 2:They'll also go after bristol early. You know the their box kicking game is something they rely on heavily. Their high kicks or Gary Owens off 10 is something they rely on and it's only really when they get the attacking picture that they like that they'll then push the button and you'll go geez, leinster's attack is amazing, but they're very patient before they pull the trigger on that. And look, they've got some great individuals across the team and they've got great depth. Even if you're hanging in there for 50, 60 minutes, you've got a very strong bench coming on from them. But I think it's going to be a really good game. It's a good time to get Leinster. Typically after an international window, it usually takes them a week or two to get ramped up and you don't get that with Europe this this year and especially with Ireland playing the the extra game against Australia. That will go against Leinster, do you think?
Speaker 1:do you think many Leinster fans will travel on Sunday? I mean, will they all take the day off on Monday? It just feels a little bit of a shame that it's not a Saturday night or a Saturday afternoon, where there'd be an amazing atmosphere in Ashton Gate, although I don't know. What do you think?
Speaker 2:Oh, there will be a good Leinster following there. For sure They'll enjoy going over to Bristol because it's a brilliant city and yeah, look, they'll make do probably take Monday off. Things are starting to slow down in December from a work perspective. I'm sure they've got some leave left over, but yeah, it can be guaranteed those flights will be full, leaving Dublin and all the counties will be heading over to Bristol to support their team. They love travelling for the URC but in particular for Europe. There'll always be a few thousand on the road.
Speaker 1:Well, it's good timing because they've just opened the first ever kebab shop on North Street. I know we've been waiting years for it and it's going to be open till midnight, so we better tell those boys to put some extra food on.
Speaker 1:Mads, we really appreciate your time. It's been fascinating actually hearing. I've got one more question, but I don't know if you boys have, but I was just thinking about what you said about when you didn't play quite as much at Bristol as you hoped, perhaps in the kind of last season you were there. I mean, was that just a case of of you know, you you'd mentored all these young players and then you did it too well and uh, you know, because I think you know the likes of Callum sort of came through really strongly in that sort of time and you know, or was it a case of you know, you just, you just just got to an age where it wasn't quite right.
Speaker 2:I was just kind of interested to know how it all ended really yeah, like you know, I think at the time there was speculation that myself and pat had fallen out and, and you know that certainly wasn't the case. You know I, um, I was obviously really disappointed and there was, there was elements that I felt a bit let down on um. But the other side to it as well is, like you know, and I've probably seen this more as I got older is like, look, it is sport and we love it and you guys are genuine supporters and, like you, love the purity of the game. But there's also a side of the game where it is a business Right, and the reality was it took a lot of money for to get me to come to Bristol, which wasn't, it wasn't the real driver for me. Like I'm sure you can see from that, I'm not solely driven by money. It is part of it and you know you've got to make. Hey well, the sun shines.
Speaker 2:It's a short career and it's fairly brutal, but from the salary that I was on and how I was performing, I didn't condone that salary and there was probably you know conversations performing.
Speaker 2:I didn't condone that salary and there was probably a you know conversations going on in the background of could we get this guy out a season early and free up more money in the salary cap, because that's what you're competing against in the premiership.
Speaker 2:And now I wanted to fight and fight hard to get my position back and I certainly did that like there wasn't a a downing of tools or or anything like that, and I fought till the very end and I was proud to get my 50th cap, you know, just before COVID hit, and I would have loved to have fought for my position to come back and compete in the Challenge Cup. But full credit to Callum Sheedy. He was playing brilliant, you know, and and it was the right decision to invest in someone like him, because he was going to be at the centre of the club for potentially the next five or ten years at the time. And look, that's how sport goes. You can't have it your way all the time. But no, I stand by what I said. I'm not just paying lip service to enjoying the time I had at the club. There's no doubt there was tough times, but I look back on itself only.
Speaker 3:That's brilliant. Sorry, pete, what's Pat like? He seems very to us from the outside. He seems he's obviously a disciplinarian, a head master. What's he like on the training field? Is he that strict when you're out on the field training for these big matches?
Speaker 2:um, no, like I, like strict wouldn't be be a word like when you're saying like that, like a headmaster, the best coaches like joe schmidt, you know, another kind of ex-school teacher turned into a rugby coach, phenomenal coach, and like Pat's, right up there with them of the top coaches that that I had. He's extremely technical. Pat's reviews and previews are famous, like they used to go on for for a long time, but he had to do that because he needed to get what he wanted. He was so clear with that. Um, he was able to see things live and give feedback live and training, which not all coaches can do. He allowed you to play with real freedom and yeah, look, he's stuck in there for as long as he had and he's now looking like one of the best coaches in the premiership and I'd love to see him get an international gig. I'm sure he will and I'm sure he's being offered.
Speaker 2:But that's the trajectory that pat is on as a coach. The foundations that he has and, from a culture perspective, and the standards that he sets rock solid, absolutely rock solid. Um, look, do you have your arguments with, with the head coach, just like you have arguments with you know, your, your partner or your boss. But that's healthy, you know, and if you're not challenging each other, uh, it's probably a bit of a a false relationship and um, no, like I remember, even when, when anna and myself were were leaving bristol, like he, um, he called over to the house and gave us a, you know, a nice painting of of the bridge and, you know it, very, very amicable at the end, even though, like he knew that I was probably disappointed with how it had played out.
Speaker 3:But I was also very grateful to Pat for pitching it to me and giving me the opportunity and giving me those memories, yeah, yeah, I think that's the mark of the man as well, to actually, you know, to do those little things at the end and you know the humanity in it. I think that's a big thing for Pat, isn't it Big time? Yeah, boys, I think I just remember what that away game was, mads, was it Robberham away?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I tried to delete it from my memory.
Speaker 3:It was when Lee Blackett was in charge, wasn't it who? Lee Blackett was in charge of it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2:I remember it was actually gas, because we had a break the week of after right, so we'd all booked, you know, holidays away it's about warm. Yeah, exactly. And so like the game game started. It probably should never have started, but like the snowstorm was ridiculous and you couldn't make out the lines on the pitch, at one stage they I'm not joking one stage they had a five meter line out and they drove it over our try line and continue driving I was like.
Speaker 2:I was like, if that's not going to get the game called off, I don't know what will, but we Jordan Crane is the captain and he managed to convince the ref to keep it going. Right, we make it to halftime. There was guys like hypothermic in the in the changing rooms and they were out going right with the sweeping brush trying to find the lines for the pitch and the referee and Pat, to a point, actually wanted the game off because it was clear as day we weren't going to get a bonus point win because he could barely handle the ball and we were chasing Ealing. At this stage Pat was thinking, look, we'll come back and do this again next week and we'll get the five points.
Speaker 2:Jordan, I think, had planned to go to somewhere a bit fancier than the Canaries and he was like absolutely not. And he slammed the door. He's like we're going out for the second half. Yeah, it was legendary. I'll never forget it. It was, yeah, it was crazy, we went down. I, it was. Yeah, it was, it was crazy, we went down. I think we won by a handful of points, went down to the wire and yeah, we got our holidays Brilliant.
Speaker 3:Brilliant memories, I think.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great story to to finish off on boys, unless you've got anything else. That was brilliant, pete.
Speaker 3:That was brilliant, pete. I just wanted to quickly ask.
Speaker 2:Mads, who's the best player you've ever played with? Oh, charles was off the charts. I remember things weren't going amazing for us in Bristol for a while and I just said, look, let's just not complicate things here. The more we can get the ball in Charles' hands, the chances of us winning goes up significantly. So if you can get it to him, just give it to him, and that served us pretty well for a few weeks.
Speaker 4:It did we elevated to a level of Sir Charles very quickly after he joined the club. Phenomenal skills.
Speaker 1:Although we did, I would say that there would be. No, he would never have played that game at Rotherham, would he?
Speaker 4:And would say that there would be. No, he would never have played that game at Rotherham, would he?
Speaker 1:And he was always. He was always mysteriously injured whenever it was Newcastle away. I always did like a plastic pitch.
Speaker 2:Didn't like a plastic pitch. No, no, but no, he was. He was off the charts. Yeah, he was himself. Stephen Lewis too. Luke Moran Vui like there were some real quality there. Like John was was very good as well, obviously Foa yeah, Like it was, there was some some. Some of the best players I ever played with were were at Bristol, you know, when we were firing on all cylinders like we were unstoppable. It was class.
Speaker 1:Yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 2:Good, good times, good. You've reminded us of a few things as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there we go, the hairs are standing up my neck again. Well, ian, we really, really appreciate your time, and now, now that we realize you've got a baby on the way as well, I appreciate it even more.
Speaker 2:Absolutely no. Look great to come on and yeah, look. I'll be guys at the weekend. I think it's going to be a cracker.
Speaker 4:Thanks for the tiny insight in which we might get on the Leinster skin. We'll pass it on to Pat for the weekend.
Speaker 2:It'll be the first time he follows my advice.
Speaker 4:A few Guinnesses with the travelling fans who've come over all that way over the weekend.
Speaker 1:It'll fans who've come over all that way over the weekend. It'll be a good cracker, I think. Yeah, now look, they're good people and I'm sure you guys will look after them, absolutely thanks. Thanks so much. Cheers guys.
