Bears Beyond The Gate
A Bristol Bears podcast made by fans for fans. Each week your hosts Pete, Lee and Miles will take a light-hearted look at developments from Ashton Gate and beyond.
Bears Beyond The Gate
Ep 180 - (ex) Bears Beyond the Bridge - Sheedo and DT talk to BBTG!
Ever wondered how professional rugby players navigate the transition from one team to another while maintaining their game and sanity?
Join us as we chat with Callum Sheedy and Dan Thomas, ex Bears who recently set up shop in Cardiff. They share what it's like to move from familiar territory, the emotional rollercoaster of starting anew, and how commuting together helps them stay connected to their roots. You'll hear a personal story or two about their first days at ther new club, the nerves, the laughs, and the camaraderie that makes rugby life worth it.
The 2021 season was a rollercoaster for the Bears, and Callum and Dan give an insight into what happened behind the scenes and candidly discuss the aftermath of the crushing semi-final loss and how it affected the team's confidence and strategic direction. These insights reveal the intricacies of professional sports, where game plans are as much about mental resilience as they are about physical prowess.
But it's not all on-field drama. Off the pitch, Callum and Dan share their unwinding rituals, from arm wrestling to unforgettable nights out. We get into the nitty-gritty of their lives beyond rugby, including amusing tales of teammates and the quirks of international selection rules. Whilst they still harbor dreams of playing for Wales, both players remind us that while rugby is a game, it's also a career filled with personal aspirations and challenges.
Whether you're a Bears fan or just curious about the lives of top level athletes, this episode promises a rich tapestry of stories, insights, and laughs.
you're listening to bears beyond the gate, a bristol bears podcast made by fans for fans, with three season card holders at ashley gate. We love to club the game and all things bears. Well, there hasn't been any bears related activity this weekend, but we've still managed to get a pod together for you. But this time, rather than talking about games that have been and games that have come, we've actually done an interview and in the spirit of last season, when we spoke to Dave Atwood and we also spoke to Joe Joyce, we tracked down another couple of recently left bears and had a little interview with them. And we didn't have to go too far, boys, did we? It was just over the bridge to Cardiff and of course, that probably gives it away. Yeah, we did an interview. We didn't have to go too far, boys, did we? It was just over the bridge to Cardiff and of course, that probably gives it away. Yeah, we did an interview with Callum Sheedy and Dan Thomas and actually, uniquely for us, all three of us were on the Zoom and the two of them so there were five of us on a Zoom trying to conduct an interview, which you can imagine, had certain logistical challenges and also we had to be quite disciplined in the way that we asked the questions, but it was really good of the boys to come on and do it. They were great. They were great company. So let's listen to that now.
Speaker 1:Ok, so I'm really excited to welcome Callum Sheedy, shido and Dan Thomas DT. That's what we call you, boys. Welcome them to the Bears Beyond the Gate. So, boys, thanks very much for giving up your evenings. I hope you're well. Callum, you're wearing your Leeds top. Is that a statement or is that just what you wear casually?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just my casual. I didn't actually know I had it on until you said it five minutes ago, so I would have dressed a bit smarter. So I apologise for that.
Speaker 1:Just out of interest. I mean, first question is like why are you a Leeds fan? I do vaguely remember you saying something about it in the press ages ago, but what's the history?
Speaker 3:My granddad was a Leeds fan and my dad was a Leeds fan. So when I was younger, obviously back then, they were really good, weren't they? So they were the glory fans. I've had to deal with all the rubbish now the last 20 years. Yeah, I've. Just to be honest, the worse they got, the more I loved them, because it was different and no one else supported them in school and stuff. So, yeah, just kind of from there really.
Speaker 1:Fair play. And Dan, you're looking very relaxed. I mean, obviously this is like going to go out audio, but just for the listeners he's like lying casually on his bed. I mean, that's kind of you know, you're a pretty laid-back sort of guy.
Speaker 2:what we always think so are you well, yeah, all good, thank you. Little one's currently being looked after by the parents, so some time myself is much appreciated at the moment.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. Yeah what could be better than coming on some random fan in your free time, right, boys? So first things first. Obviously, you both had illustrious careers, and long careers, at Bristol. I mean, callum, you came through the academy but you signed, I think, in 2014, when we were down in the championship and famously scored 22 points in a playoff final. That got us promoted and then we got relegated again.
Speaker 1:But let's not forget that and then that's what he called him yeah yeah and then, dan, you signed in 2017 from Gloucester, from up the road, um, yeah, but obviously now you know you're both together in Cardiff. But, um, I was just thinking about like how, how did those sort of signings come about and I mean the fact that both of you were I've been at the Bristol for so long when you both turned up at pre-season at Cardiff this season, was it a bit like going like new boys at school, like did did anybody talk to you or did you have to like walk around with each other? Uh, so, callum, maybe, what was it like when you you know, first turned up and how did it all come about?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was nerve wracking. I'll be honest, me and DT still live in Bristol, so we share lifts into Cardiff now. So it wasn't like we were just walking on our own, which was actually quite nice and, to be fair, wales is real small, so we both had people who we knew anyway at Cardiff, like through neutral friends or whatever. So it wasn't too bad, but no, we definitely. Well, I can speak for myself. I certainly had those like first day of school nerves walking in and stuff, because you've been somewhere for so long and you get comfortable with the environment and you get comfortable with the staff and then all of a sudden you're at a completely new place. Yeah, it was scary, but it was quite nice having Dan there, because if I got awkward I knew I could just, yeah, take the piss out of him or something yeah, what about you, dan?
Speaker 2:how did you feel? Nah, it was same as you. Really, I was quite nervous, obviously been in Bristol for so long, and then I was basically watching the training and started rinsing everyone all straight away. So I was quite comfortable there. But now in Cardiff it was obviously new. So I had to put my best foot forward for a couple of weeks and just stay the course and not rinse down too hard. But I think we found our feet pretty quickly and then the rinsing started pretty soon after that.
Speaker 1:I was going to say was there any sort of the fact that you'd been in England for so long? And obviously, Callum, you come from Cardiff originally, but, Dan, you're like West Wales, aren't you? Was it a bit weird? Did you get a bit of jip for playing?
Speaker 2:in England and that sort of stuff. No, in fairness, most of the boys I had met in previous years through mutual friends or nights out, if I'm honest, but no, they were in fact, actually I'm probably one of the oldest at the club, so it's quite tough for the young boys that rinsed me pretty early on. But no, I think they everyone got to know each other pretty quickly. They were more comfortable around me then. But no, in fact, the first couple of days, I think me and Sheedz kept our head down and didn't give too much shit.
Speaker 1:But I think Jockey, as a coach, that instance the most, if I'm honest, the first meeting was pretty eye-opening, so he's like so, uh, but I was good, but that was my opinion well, I mean you, in your both sort of your own ways, you've made quite a big impression um so far, and correct me if I'm, but I think you've won three out of six, haven't you? Cardiff and Callum, you were captain, weren't you? You were made captain the last game.
Speaker 1:And Dan, we saw some sort of stats came up on Twitter about all your turnovers and you scored a couple of tries, early doors as well. So you know. Obviously I assume you're really enjoying playing again, playing regularly. My question to you, callum, is you know what's the URC like compared to your experiences of playing in the Premiership?
Speaker 3:Yeah, like it's a funny one. I was actually speaking about this with Joyce and Andy Uren, Like we still speak on a WhatsApp group no longer. For me as a 10, I generally find it tougher than the Prem. I think it's. I don't know if Dan will agree, but I find it a lot more physical, especially the backs. Every team in the UFC seems to have a huge centre and some sort of freak on the wing who's carrying 10, 12 times at the 10 channel. I personally find it tougher than the Prem. I think it's more physical. I think it's more physical, I think, because you're playing against teams from Ireland, Scotland, South Africa, Italy. Every single team has a different style, whereas in the Prem you've kind of got two styles. You've either got your Quinns Northampton who throw it about, or you've got your Sales Sowers who kick the leather off it. So I personally have found it probably tougher than the Prem, whether that's because I've been in the Prem for a long time and it's something different.
Speaker 3:I don't know, but I'm coming off the pitch now. Whether I'm too old now I don't know, but I'm getting sore for two, three days because you've got so much traffic coming down your channel and stuff. Yeah, I've been surprised because in England the URC seems to have a bit of a bad reputation. I think people think it's some sort of like Farmers League or something, but no offense to farmers. But you look at like Leinster dominating, getting to finals of Europe every year. Munster European giants and the South African teams are freaks. So it's like the standard of opposition is is really good that you know. I'd be really impressed. The Scottish teams you played this year. They they're really really sort of all-court game sort of thing. They've got like powerful back row, big backs set piece. So yeah, I've actually found it tougher than the Prem, if I'm being honest.
Speaker 1:What about you, dan? I mean, you're in the thick of it. I mean obviously.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm meant to look after him most of the time and I've failed a couple of times on that.
Speaker 5:No, and it's fair.
Speaker 2:After that I found it shocked me the most is how physical it actually is, because, looking from when I was in the Prem, I'd always thought that USC wasn't as physical, but it always knew me quick. But no, in fact we played Scarlet twice in the first three. I eventually played Scarlet twice in the first three, four weeks and I was quite surprised how physical they were. Obviously it's a Welsh team. I never thought that. But now and then we had Glasgow that came down and obviously they're champions last year and it was a bit of a shock to the system how physical they were.
Speaker 2:But, like she said, every team has an absolute mutant in their team, but they tend to work hard. They work together quite well as well, Because it's not just the mutant who carries, who just have to defend it, they work well off him and how to exploit spaces using that bloke as well. So no, it's been tough and it's been competitive as well. So obviously, having a young team in Cardiff, it means she's one of the older heads in the team really. So all the heads in the team, really. So it was up to us to fucking front up really. But it's been good, it's been really good.
Speaker 1:I mean, the weird thing is I mean, you're on a break as well now, aren't you? Well, you have been for a bit, but you haven't got anything. There's no cup game or cup competition for you, so are you basically kind of just hanging around trying to keep fit?
Speaker 3:until it restarts again or we had, uh, we had 10 days off after ulster, um, which was really nice, and then we've been in this week. Now there's been pretty brutal, to be fair. It's like a mini pre-season. We had a real tough day today, um, like conditioning, um. So we'd have like a two-week block now where it's like conditioning, and then we prep then for our game on the 30th of november, so we'd have like a 10 day prep for that. It's a bit strange, like we've never had. I've never had, well, me and Dan have never had a four week break mid season. There's always been some sort of like prem cup. So it's strange, but you know, it's actually quite refreshing and quite nice as well.
Speaker 1:You're not going to. It just struck me actually, you to watch the Australia game, are you?
Speaker 3:I was tempted. I'm away this weekend.
Speaker 2:I was tempted. I think we're planning on going to watch the.
Speaker 4:There's a Reds game in January, february. Yeah, yeah, I think that's the game.
Speaker 2:We've aimed to go out, I guess, to watch if we can manage to get tickets somehow.
Speaker 4:I think you could probably pull a few strings. I think.
Speaker 1:If you've got any problems, lads, just get in touch with us. We'll, we'll see if we can sort something for you send us a discount code well look um, I think miles, that's my little group of questions done. That was about I was going to do the bit about cardiff, so miles is going to weigh in with a few questions. I think about your time at bristol, so yeah, that'd be great.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so you know. I just wondered, uh, what it was like when the Pat revolution started, because you were both there before the rebrand, weren't you? Maybe sort of start with you, callum?
Speaker 3:yeah, it was, um, like it was needed. To be honest, obviously we had, like I said, we got promoted in 2015 and we came straight back down, went back up and it was a bit like we were like the yo-yo team, so we needed some sort of like stability and Pat sort of definitely brought that in. I guess he came with like the vision which we all bought into massively. So, yeah, like at the time he just won the league with Connors, so we'd heard of him, he was a big figure. So I remember before he came in, we were all bricking it. We thought this nut is coming, but no, he was great. Obviously, those first four years under him we were a breath of fresh air. We were just really really enjoying our rugby and yeah, I loved it.
Speaker 3:To be fair, I loved it.
Speaker 4:What are your thoughts? Dt Similar, like the change and the sort of leadership he brought.
Speaker 2:Fuck, if I'm honest, I was at Gloucester and I had no job. The next season, when I was given a contract at Bristol, I heard Paddock come in For me. It was just like last chance corral for me, if I'm honest. I can't remember no, in fairness, I had gone through like three seasons at Gloucester. I hardly played, just enjoyed alcohol and going out with my mates, basically, and played 16 games in three seasons. So, coming to Bristol, I think, in fairness, that's probably what I needed, just a bit of direction and a bit of motivation.
Speaker 2:So no, in fairness, I really enjoyed the first couple of seasons really so yeah good, yeah great, excellent Thanks.
Speaker 4:All right, it was in fairness, I really enjoyed the first couple of seasons really so yeah good, yeah great, excellent, thanks, alright, and also, just aside, we spoke to Joycey and Dave Atwood about remember that 2021 season. What was it like in the club when you went on that big run up to the semi-final and maybe just talk a bit about the semi-final, but you featured Callum.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was crazy, like we were going into games almost feeling like invincible, like we were going to win whatever happens, which was, you know, an unbelievable feeling when you're going out to a game playing Saris Quinns. Whoever, just knowing you were going to win was, yeah, it was class and no, like you said, we went on a really good run and then obviously the semi-final happened, which I think probably scarred us for about two years, if we're being honest.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we chatted to Dave about this. I mean, what are your recollections of the day? Obviously, ultimately, there was that massive turnaround, but your thoughts on you know what happened on the day.
Speaker 3:Why the sudden? It was yeah, yeah, the first half was well, the first 36 minutes was it was amazing wasn't it? Yeah, exactly how we trained, like perfect. And then I remember Charles coming off in the first half with the HIA, yeah, and then you start thinking, oh god, because obviously he was actually a freak show that season. And yeah, I don't know like they scored, I think, a couple early second half. And then we started to panic a little bit they scored one on the right just front everyone's like everyone's like oh fuck, here we go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was different wasn't it it was like it was off a real start as well, wasn't it, I think, or something, yeah.
Speaker 3:I don't remember yeah, and then the second half just seemed to and just it was crazy, it was like an outer body experience Just lost all control we did. And yeah, I think, to be honest, I think obviously that was gutting enough, but I think the knock-on effect they had over the next couple of seasons, I think personally, I think really hurts as a squad, like we probably second-guessed how we wanted to play, like we got this kicking game which was not us at all.
Speaker 4:No, no, absolutely you know and as fans you know the amount of times the flipping brist down ball phrase. I think we just got bored of it, and that you know end of last season where we sort of smashed them in the final game of the season. That was for us that was just a brilliant moment. Really appreciate that and sort of after that sort of period, I mean it's just fair to say that a few seasons after that I guess neither of you played as much. And, callum, is there an argument to say that perhaps you fell foul of the system and perhaps you weren't able to express yourself as much?
Speaker 3:Maybe I mean, obviously, like I said after that, the season after, I remember we sort of become the biggest stat we looked at then was like kick meters and uh, yeah, for me I that's that's not me at all, I'm not a 10 who stands in kicks, but that's what I was trying to become and, um, I think a lot of people fans included, included probably thought I was just choosing to kick all the time when, and that probably pissed me off the most that people were kind of why are you kicking?
Speaker 3:why are you kicking so much? I'm thinking, well, if I want to play, I've got no choice, I've got to stand there and kick the ball. Um, so, yeah, I guess. Uh, that was a real frustrating 18 months for me because I just wanted to come out and say listen, I, I am doing what I'm told to do. But, yeah, we become way too obsessed with on the Monday morning it'd be who kicked the most, us or Gloucester, and if we didn't win that, it would be a big hoo-ha Like, oh my God, we didn't kick as much. And you see, now this year it's amazing to watch, you know, watch the boys running it again. Oh, absolutely, yeah, that's what we should have done for the last two years, but unfortunately we tried to change.
Speaker 4:It didn't work and yeah, I was the 10 at the time. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, that's interesting. And Dan, really I think a lot of fans would agree that you're actually a beast of a seven and the best jackler we ever had. I mean, why do you think you maybe fell out of favour?
Speaker 2:personally, I'm not sure. To be honest, in Venice the first three or four seasons I was playing pretty regular all week in, week out, and then I don't know if it's defensive systems changed or anything. I was just not given the free reign or what I wanted as much as I used to be able to do. And I think us winning in three, four years maybe covered up the negative things I used to do in the games up quite a bit years. Maybe covered up the right, the negative things I used to do in the games up quite a bit. So as soon as we started losing, maybe that just magnified what I was doing wrong in games mainly.
Speaker 2:But I'm not sure. There wasn't like a moment in time where I thought, oh, that's the turning point. But no, I was quite frustrated in that. Well, three, four, three seasons last year I was really frustrated how things went because I personally felt as if I was still playing pretty well and then I wasn't getting the rewards for it or I was just not getting picked for it. So the last three seasons I had at Bristol were really frustrating for me because it's not how I wanted my career to finish at Bristol.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. It seems frustrating for fans too. I mean, you know, we thought you were playing great every time you came on. We couldn't quite understand why you weren't getting picked either. But you know, we thought you were playing great every time you came on. We couldn't quite understand why you weren't getting picked either. But you know, we're not the boss, are we?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, but no, it was frustrating. Obviously I have a lot of fond memories of Bristol and the way we played and stuff really suited me. And the last couple of seasons we did change quite a fair bit how we wanted to play, so that didn't really suit me either. Like Sheed said, I was the same about the Sheeds. The kicking game and basically the South Africa style game didn't suit me because about 100 kilos soaking wet and about 5 foot 9 so that had a big effect on my selection and stuff, but it was just frustrating the last three seasons for me, for us yeah
Speaker 1:absolutely well. Miles did a good job there, mate, well done. That's your first, your first interview. So it's lee. We're going to move over to lee, who's going to, uh, ask you a few questions hiya fellas.
Speaker 5:First thing I want to say is that I don't know, if you can see this but I thought I'd put, I put this on show for you boys today. Um, actually, without wanting to regurgitate too much of what you've said about bristan ball, but what? What do you guys think? What were your opinions on us actually starting to? Why did we change our game and have this you know, crisis, uh, confidence crisis after Bristan Ball? What do you think was the psyche then after that?
Speaker 3:that's a good question. I don't know like we came in the the year after or half of the year after, I can't remember, and it was like there was a. I remember we had a meeting and it was like I can't remember 8 out of 10 games where the team kicks more metres than the other team will win. So we thought we got presented that this is how we win games and we're all sat there like right, but in hindsight, like as a 10, as a leader, like I wish I, you know, I wish I said that's probably not the way we do it. But you know, hindsight's a wonderful thing. I've bought into it, as I bought into everything we did. And yeah, like Dan said, it wasn't, it wasn't a bit so I don't know what the psyche was behind it. I don't know who was the brains behind it. I don't really know.
Speaker 2:I thought when South Africa won the World Cup and we just yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:I just wanted. Sorry, colin, I just wanted to say from our point of view it was very strange, for us as well, watching you on the pitch, knowing that that's not the way you play usually. You know that's not your game and I think then we tended to, we lost a bit of clarity in the way we're playing. It almost felt like the the club ethos that we built up over that four or five year period previously. It felt like it just completely had collapsed just on that, like overnight, on that one game and it, it. I do agree. I think it's taken such a long time for us to get over that, that game in particular, to bounce back yeah, yeah, you're, probably you're right, like it's um in.
Speaker 3:Like, looking back, as players, probably we didn't really, you know, know what we were doing. We were, you know, we were playing a kicking game with players who aren't suited for a kicking game. We were playing a kick and chase game with boys who don't want to stand there and chase kicks all day. But maybe we had to go through that for the boys to get where they are today. Maybe we had to go through that and realise that's not us, and maybe in 10 years time we'll look back and think it was actually a good thing, um, but yeah it, it wasn't particularly overly enjoyable playing, uh, that style yeah, and and dan, when you went back on loan to scarlet, how was that for you?
Speaker 5:was it like a, you know, like a homecoming and did you? Did you? Obviously, you know, was it nice to be back around family again and you know, were settled straight away? Or were you just thinking? I'm so confused, why am I here?
Speaker 2:A bit of both really, because I think I went all right in a couple of weeks. I came back from an injury because I did my ankle and I did it right. I was basically on half a leg and then all of a sudden turned up on Monday thinking, oh, I'm going to play. I think you boys I'm not sure who you played, but I played and then I turned up on Monday and he was like you're off on loan to Scarlet, so you want to? And I was like fuck it. Okay, bit of a shock to the system. But I was like, yeah, all good, I'll just go.
Speaker 2:And then, in fairness, I really enjoyed it. It was just Dwayne Peel was there and he just said go out there and play rugby, just back yourself and stuff. So, in fairness, we played Leinster and Connacht and we got hammered both weeks. But I actually really enjoyed just like the rugby and just a bit of freedom. How I felt with Bristol like my first couple of seasons. It was just like go express yourself. You're a half-teacher rugby player, just go do what you want to do. And I was like, yeah, happy days. And then, obviously, I think someone got injured again then and then I came back straight into the Bristol team and I think I was on the bench for the rest of the season then. So, no, I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:In fairness, I still came down from Bristol because I knew if I was on the farm it would be milking first and then rugby second. So I knew I had to stay away from the farm for the last two weeks as well. But no, it was good. We had Conant away and then Leinster home. And, in fairness, I found an eye-opener playing Leinster because it was during I'm not sure if it was during the Six Nations because they were in full, but it was like eye-opening for playing Leinster and how, like not regimented, but how everyone did their jobs so well and how they clicked as a team. They put like 40-50 points on us but didn't feel as if they did anything out of the ordinary, they just did all the simple things. Well. That, in fairness, just accumulated points and it was. It was. I had massive respect for Leinster, respectful and stuff like that.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I can imagine, Pete. Have you got anything else to ask now?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:I've still got to go to my bottom questions here.
Speaker 1:No, go for it. No, you go for your. Yeah, go for your bottom question, whatever that is. Okay, you tell me we had a planning meeting about a minute before you boys came on.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and I was 40 seconds late into it. So I wanted to ask both of you actually, because I've got a good friend of mine who plays professional cricket for Gloucestershire and one of the things that you know I don't think us as supporters appreciate a lot of the time is what you boys actually have to go through, like not just on the training field but in your personal lives, and to still be able to perform, as you know, efficiently, as you do on a weekend, what, what sort of got. I'm really interested in the kind of process that you you have to put into place, like, if you've had a bad day, you go out on the field, you've got to perform, you know, in front of 20,000 people, and you know how do you build up to that. If you've had a terrible day, how are you still able to perform to that level when you're on the pitch?
Speaker 3:It's not easy, like there's times and there's been times over the last few years where, like the last thing I wanted to do, to be honest, is go out and play a game of rugby, like it's been literally the last I wanted to do. But, um, it's your job at the end of the day. Um, you're paid money to perform. Uh, just like any, any person who's working is paid money to go and do their job. So, um, you've still, like, you've still got that passion and that drive to competitive. We're competitive people. We still want to go and win.
Speaker 3:So when we step foot on that pitch, I think it's almost like a bit of a nice release. No matter what's going on in your day, you still perform yourself. Yeah, I found the weeks more tough in training and stuff, trying to stay engaged and still trying to do all that when you've had like a crappy few weeks or whatever off the pitch. So the games are the easy part, to be honest, because you can just go out and be a performer self. I used to find the weeks quite tough when you were having sort of a bad day. That was the hard thing for to me.
Speaker 2:I think and Dan, yeah, I'm similar. She's like end of the day, it's my job, so I have to do well because and I'll be honest to you it's a privilege for us to be able to do it as a living, if I'm honest, because there's a lot more tougher things going on in the world than playing rugby. So if I turn up on a Saturday and play, I wasn't emotionally or mentally there, then I think that's a kick in the teeth for everyone else. So for me to turn up on a Saturday and just play 80 minutes as best I can, I think it's not easy, but it's just something I can mentally switch on to quite easy because it's a short career, so I got to make the most of it, and if I don't, then I'll be milking and pulling four teats sooner rather than later. So that's my mentality going over.
Speaker 2:But I am in credit to like. If I've had a bad, bad couple of days, then for me, going into training and getting abused from the boys and just being around them is like the best thing for me, because it just, um, takes away not reality, but it takes away, uh, the feeling of negativity. Whatever I had gone, go outside rugby. So for me, being rinsed by seeds most of the day, or just having lift club and having stopping for coke, zero for snacks. It's just stuff. The little things I got I appreciate the most because it's just um. What I like for the boys is like they'll treat me the same way every day, regardless.
Speaker 5:I'm feeling down or I'm feeling good, so that's why I appreciate the most yeah, I guess I mean, from that point of view, it is a great leveler, isn't it? It's like having me when you've got kids, you can have the worst day in the world, but you know, when you come out, when they don't care about that, do they so exactly?
Speaker 1:yeah yeah I've just got a one follow-up question to that. And then we've got like a few real quick fire questions like short answer ones, and then we had we did actually ask a few of our listeners whether they had any questions and we did get a few, so we might just finish off with them as well. But that's all right. It was just, um, the follow-up to that was there was. It was for callum really.
Speaker 1:It just struck me that, um, there was that season where I don't know if you remember this, but you hit the post quite a lot with your conversions and penalties and it kind of like it became a bit of a thing, you know, like Shido's hit the post again like the fans, and I just wonder, like, did that get to you at all? But also, what is your kind of? How do you, what is your process, your kicking process, your routine, because obviously it is a technical skill and how do you kind of get rid of those sort of negative thoughts or the noise of the crowd or that sort of stuff? Be interested to know that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, firstly, the whole hitting the post thing didn't. I was aware of it but I didn't really care that people were saying stuff and I actually found it quite funny that people I think they cared more than I did about it in the post because I knew my process was. You know, it wasn't like I was fully shanking them. You know, if you're hitting the post you're not a million miles off. And, don't get me wrong, you're very frustrated when I miss a kick.
Speaker 3:But in terms of kicking process I've probably struggled the last few years because we had Dave Ulrich come in as a kicking coach and he kind of made us change our kicking tees. So I changed my kicking tee two seasons ago when he came in and my percentages went from like 85 to like 60. Like genuine. It was terrible and I started getting into my own head then because I was like overthinking things. And yeah, I'm back to my old team now. So hopefully my percentages will go up a little bit this year. They've been tough this year actually. We keep scoring in the corner, so we're really not doing anything for my stats.
Speaker 2:You're flying against us. Yeah, don't worry, george.
Speaker 1:Ford can't hit him from the corner either.
Speaker 2:Big corner that was right in front.
Speaker 4:Yeah, where else it was?
Speaker 3:In terms of the process. I think as long as you're consistent with your process and it's like going okay in training, then the noise of the crowd, if you miss a few, you know from the crowd. Everyone thinks you should get every one, don't they? You know it's easy for the crowd. Just put that little ball through that massive H. It's easy, but it's a. That massive H looks a lot smaller when you're down there.
Speaker 1:It was just actually just reminded when you were talking, because you were. Another big fan favourite was Ian Madigan and you were kind of, you learned from him because he nailed a few quality kicks at the death of a couple of games as well, and we again, he was a big, I think he was a big fan favourite for the way that he stepped up. But yeah, I guess you must have been kind of, you must have learned a bit from him as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely. I still speak to Mads now regularly. He was like a mentor to me.
Speaker 5:I thought he was a legend.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I remember when I first started kicking off that telescopic tee, he was the one who got me the tee, introduced me to it and it was. I was with him, bruce Johanna Beanie, and then, yeah, I used to spend hours with Mads talking about kicking because he was. I reckon he's probably the best goalkeeper I've worked with. To be honest, like in training, he was a freak. Like we'd have competitions for coffees and I don't think I ever won one in the three years I played with him. He was, he was dead on, dead on.
Speaker 1:We used to we used to say he loved his coffee, didn't he? Yes, he did turn away straight away. If he knew it was so, we used to watch him rather than the ball, and you knew that as soon as he turned away, you knew that it'd gone in. It was uh, it was amazing he struck an amazing ball.
Speaker 3:To be fair to him, he he was, yeah, spot on.
Speaker 1:What about your kicking Dan? Any good.
Speaker 2:Terrible.
Speaker 4:Can you?
Speaker 2:do a torpedo. In fairness, I wouldn't mind a little torpedo, but the chances of actually coming off a torpedo was probably 50-50. The other one would probably spiral into the touchline.
Speaker 1:Have you ever tried a grubber in a game?
Speaker 2:No, I don't think I have. Actually, I think if I tried a grubber in the game, I think I'd be playing fucking dings grazedas that we got through.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe right, boys, we've taken up a lot of your time. We really appreciate it, but we have got a couple of quick fire ones, so just short answers on this, alright, so I'm going to do. Am I doing the first three miles? Is that right?
Speaker 4:Go for it. Yeah, go for it. So here's the first one.
Speaker 1:Um, I'll, I'll ask both of you. I'll go Callum first. Dry robes at Ashton Gate yes or no? Dry robes yeah. Fans wearing dry robes at Ashton Gate any rugby stadium Is that acceptable or not? No, no, dave Atwood thought it was fine by the way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's Dave all over that.
Speaker 1:He thought he was like talking about we could get branded ones and Bishop Pair should have them. Dave, all over, what about?
Speaker 2:you.
Speaker 1:Dan Dry robes on the farm.
Speaker 2:I'm honestly, I can't stand dry robes. I think they look terrible. Yes, I think it looked terrible.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, we had quite a big thing about that where we made a big thing. We were taking photos of people wearing them at Ashton Gate and saying it was unacceptable. All right, there you go. Good Second question, thinking back at the time of your whole time at Bears and Bristol before they were Bears, who do you think was like the hardest man? I'll go Callum first.
Speaker 3:I'll go a bit of a throwback. Dave Lemmy, oh yeah, he was terrifying. I'll tell you a quick story. I remember we were out in France and we were on Font-Rameau and there was a few punch-ups in training and like yeah, it was real niggly and he was our captain at the time. I remember he stood in the middle of the circle, there was 35 blokes around him and he said all this fighting is bullshit. He said if anyone wants to have a fight, he said I'll be in the car park waiting for you. And he stood there for an hour and not one person went anywhere near that car park.
Speaker 1:he was hard. That is brilliant what about?
Speaker 2:Leua was mine. Yeah, he was like a man of like, not many words, but you respect him and you know if, if he wanted to flick that switch, he'd knock you clean out probably.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll tell you what, joyce, he said. We asked him that question and he said ala patty, he said exactly the same thing. And he said hasn't he got any ACLs or anything? He's like got no ligaments or something, apparently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, his legs are so strong, I just keep them together, but no, he's a legend. He is a legend, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right next one. This is for Callum specifically. Do you miss Harry? Randall has he asked that no, no. I don't know him that well, because there was a time where you were the kind of you know. I thought you and Rans were the kind of Spice Boys around Bristol, the young lads he's still.
Speaker 3:He's still like one of my best mates. Now I still see him speak to him pretty much every day. So no, I probably speak to him more now than I did in the club, so don't miss him.
Speaker 1:I wish I'd seen him less same question to Dan, then similar one who do you miss the most at Bristol? My whole time at Bristol yeah, who was your best friend? Who's your?
Speaker 2:special friend. In fairness, I've got Sheeds as my best friend. I see him every day. I came as a package in the college but in fairness, I have a lot of boys. I miss really obviously Bat to Cardiff, but no, in fact there are a lot of boys. I miss really obviously bats, stacks, dolph and all them, but in fact I speak to them most days as well. So I probably rather it now because I don't have to put up with them every single day.
Speaker 1:Nice one, Miles. Have you got any quickfire?
Speaker 4:questions. Yeah, quickfire question bench pressing sheep, or was that just a COVID thing?
Speaker 2:No, that was just a COVID thing. I've retired the sheep now, so I'm sent out of the pasture.
Speaker 4:Good stuff, Basically. Really, what do you do to relax now, apart from just lying in beds and in the evening without your kids? What about you, Dan? I?
Speaker 2:go to arm wrestling clubs.
Speaker 4:To participate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, basically my wife Does your coach know this, we're all flipping.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think she's probably brought it up for you. Because, I missed her on paternity leave for nine months and I was in Bristol on my own while she was back in Carmarthen. So I saw her on YouTube once and I stitched it up. And then just me and four Ukrainian blokes in the garden shed every Wednesday, every Wednesday evening right, oh dear, and she's.
Speaker 4:Have you got something a bit less sort of salubrious that you enjoy?
Speaker 3:trying to relax, I'm a bit lost at the moment because I was coaching the last four years at True Valley, but I've stopped that this year. Oh okay, yeah, I'm very, very boring. At the moment I'm dog walks and how are they doing since you left? I don't want to speak bottom of the league, but it's a coincidence.
Speaker 1:Fair play, fair play Brilliant thank you, that's where In that. Oh God, I've forgotten his name. Let's forget that question. Like ex-Bristol player, he's Tuvalu Anyway.
Speaker 5:Mark Regan. Yeah, Regan, yeah, that's it yeah that's the one.
Speaker 3:He's down there all the time, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, there you go. Oh, you haven't got a quickfire. One Lee, have you?
Speaker 3:Yeah well, if you don't first but it's to both of you what was your best moment, on or off the field at Bristol Bears? Ooh, the two that probably stand out would be the Doncaster playoff 2015,. I think.
Speaker 1:That was just like surreal.
Speaker 3:That was unbelievable. And then winning the European Cup out in France was amazing. It was just a shame it was Covid because we couldn't get any fans out there. So yeah, it's a shame, because obviously the Bristolians would have been out there in their numbers. So yeah, that was cool. And then we got to have a good drink in the hotel, which was, yeah, good fun yeah, we pushed Miles in an Asda trolley on that evening we got absolutely levitated that night watching it on telly and then we were on radio
Speaker 1:we got on radio Bristol as well. Afterwards, as some fans like Jeff Twentyman was. We were live on Jeff Twentyman and just it was just shouting down the phone at him, yeah it was.
Speaker 5:It was a yeah we enjoyed ourselves and Dan. What was your best moment, dan? On or off the field?
Speaker 2:In fairness, on the field I've had a load of great moments with my mates and stuff, but off the field for me there was two nights out. I've always remembered so it was after the too long game in the hotel. So obviously we couldn't leave the hotel. After us, we all drank with a bar and I thought that's probably what brought us closer than ever, because we should have showed his pockets for three days straight. And then she didn't know. Remember the 12th, the second season we had, I had a bristol, we had newcastle uh away and well, I'm she's as a part of it. So we had a three-day bender for the last, for the three days following.
Speaker 2:So we had a three-day bender for the last, for the three days following it, and then we had fitness tests on the fourth day. But no, then three, four days. I loved them and they're one of the memories that always stick with me for the rest of my life basically.
Speaker 4:Brilliant, I've got a funny little question as well. Both of you, so you're both there. At the time of Sammy Radranger, did he ever learn the words to the Blackbird? Do you think he ever knew what the words were or what he was singing? He probably knew it in Fijia.
Speaker 3:He had a very select few English words pass me ball that's what he used to say give me ball and I score. That's all he needed to know.
Speaker 4:Brilliant, I think we'll let him off with that singing. Or Pass me the ball. As I used to say, give me ball and I score. That's all he needed to know. Brilliant, I think we'll let him off with that singing. A little lack of it, potentially Brilliant. Thanks, jep, I think.
Speaker 1:I've got one more question. I'm just looking at some that we got sent from some of the listeners, but actually I think we've covered quite a lot of them, to be honest, just generally. But there was, he's a good mate of ours actually, as in the fact he listens to the podcast and tells us he likes it, so he's a good mate. Uh, he said it's marcus watts. I'll name check him. He said do you think the cat rule has helped or hindered rugby over the past few years, and why? Um, like, I guess his interest was in the context of england rule around not picking overseas players. But I guess, from your point of view, you two I mean callum, obviously, obviously you've already got 14 caps for Wales. Dan, you did play under 20 Wales, didn't you have? Both of you got pretensions of trying to get back in the international fold and being back in Wales obviously, you know, helps a bit. I'll go with Dan first.
Speaker 2:I'll be honest, I'll be lying to you if I said I don't want to play for Wales because at the end of the day, that's every kid's dream to play for their country. But no, that's the main target for me play well for Cardiff and hopefully something might come along the lines. But no, my main concern at the moment is play well for Cardiff and have a good season there firstly. But if something comes afterwards then yeah, I'd really really be enjoying it. But for me, in fairness probably me being Kappa in the 20s, in fairness, he's got it down to a tier at least.
Speaker 2:That really locked me in to Wales because I wouldn't have said I would have played like, if I even get picked for England, I wouldn't have. I have no idea where that would happen, but because contract-wise in England the EQP rule is massive in England. So for me, just playing Wales 20s, that made me a foreigner every time when I was at Gloucester and Bristol. So contractually it's horrible to be EQ, non-eqp and basically a nobody really, because it takes a spot on the team, on the squad. So it hindered me a fair bit. But it's easy enough to say that now because when I was in the 20s I never thought I'd leave Wales, or just I'd be a scarlet the rest of my life, basically. But looking back hindsight, it does affect the younger boys more than anything.
Speaker 1:Actually Callum. Before you answer it, I just remembered something that I did some research on you and you played against Barbarians. You were in the England squad. Do you remember that? In 2019. I vaguely remember wearing that shirt. I found it on YouTube, but you didn't get on. You were on the bench and Marcus Smith was playing 10. I did get on, did you? Oh, right bench, you and Marcus Smith was playing 10 and I did get on.
Speaker 2:Did you all right, yeah?
Speaker 1:but I watched it on YouTube and you definitely weren't singing the national anthem, I could tell. Did you think that moment is like? You know? That was a defining moment in your international career, and then you've obviously gone on and played for wales yeah, I mean, um, no, I didn't sing the anthem.
Speaker 3:Um, I thought it was wrong. It was wrong to sing the anthem because I have no english blood in me, I was just residents. Yeah, it was a great week and I, you know, I did really enjoy it. But when I stood there and he was singing god save the queen, at the time I didn't feel any emotion. Like I didn't feel emotion. Like when I'm there and we're singing the Welsh national anthem, I'm like almost crying. So that probably tells me that playing for England was probably wrong for me. To be honest. Like, yeah, it was a great experience, but it was wrong there was some seriously big.
Speaker 1:I was just looking at the team on that day. It was like Piers O'Connor was playing Joe Marchant, Josh Bassett, Marcus Smith, Alex Mitchell, Tom Dunn, Don Brandt, Ben Currie, Harrison. On the bench was Urbano Will Spencer, you, Ben Loder. There was quite a, and then in the I think, Steve Lewittu was playing for the Barbarians.
Speaker 2:So was Bill Matter, as well, yeah Giles, played, yeah Giles played.
Speaker 1:Joe Marla was playing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually that's a good final question actually. Joe Marla, what's I mean? What are your thoughts on him? Out of interest, because he had a few run-ins with Bristol, didn't he?
Speaker 3:He had the Jake Heenan thing and all that sort of stuff yeah, he's not for me, like, I'm not one that's like all over social media and stuff. I find it quite. You know you're talking on the pitch personally, but listen he's going to have a great career after rugby because he's controversial. So fair play to him, but it's not for me Fair enough, brilliant.
Speaker 4:Very diplomatic. Yeah. So we need a final bit of advice from you two, although you have highlighted that you are still resident in Bristol. Obviously, big day out for Bristol Bath in May. I think you boys are sadly in South Africa playing the Stormers that weekend. Yeah so you know, shame, you can't come Any bars we should head for near the Principality or avoid.
Speaker 3:There's some nice pubs in poncani. You can have a nice pub crawl going into the town there it's nice bars and pubs sorry, nice pubs, nice beer garden. So get there nice and early and have a few beers before you get there all right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think you'll kick off same time. So, yeah, you probably won't be watching that with you. That which is, you know, yeah, shame, yeah, you'll be. You'll be enjoying the sunshine down in South Africa, yeah, Brilliant, thank you.
Speaker 1:Well, lads, I think that's really good. I really appreciate you giving up a lot of your time for us and thanks, it's been really good. So, yeah, we'll do some sort of editing on this at some point and stick it out, and I'm sure I mean seriously, I think a lot of we do have a reasonable number of listeners and they'll be really I think they'll be really sort of pleased to hear what you've got to say and some really interesting stuff that we just don't know as fans. So we really appreciate your honesty. But, lee, you've got one more question.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I just wanted to sum that up, actually, pete. We wanted to sum that up, actually, pete. We wanted to say personally, lads, that we genuinely did appreciate everything you've done for us in a Bears shirt and on and off the field. You've been massive ambassadors to Bristol Bears and part of the whole. You know the rebrand process and we just wanted to say like, genuinely, we are genuine massive fans of you boys, thank you. I wanted to say like, genuinely, we are genuine massive fans of you boys and we were gutted when you left, absolutely gutted, and it's so good to see you pushing on now with Blues and doing so well, you know.
Speaker 5:Thanks very much.
Speaker 4:Appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Well, boys, there you go. It was 45 minutes of what I'd say is pretty good bants, wasn't it? Despite the fact that your face was getting redder and redder, Lee, as the whole session went on, we should say.
Speaker 5:I mean, it was a bit manic for all three of us, wasn't it? It was no doubt it was for Sheeds and Dan Thomas as well, but I think I got home from work about five to seven, jumped in the shower literally, was boiling hot, and then realised that I'd kept the heating on so as the because I didn't want to get up and turn the heating off while we were talking.
Speaker 4:It would have been rude. Yeah, it would have been rude.
Speaker 5:And yeah, it was subsequently about 25 degrees in my flat and I was absolutely baking. I don't know how I managed to get the questions out, but you did very well.
Speaker 4:I was suffering boys. I'm glad it's going out as an audio file only because, in addition to that, Pete, and I might add that Lee had a Wales mug that he sort of like he was bigging up DT and Shido. We wouldn't want to put that out on a video file, would we?
Speaker 5:But boys. I did have two mugs, though.
Speaker 4:You did.
Speaker 5:Two mugs, can you? Tell us what the other one was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was the Bristol Bears.
Speaker 5:European Challenge Cup final winnings Certainly was with all the caricatures on. Yeah, that's great, which is still my favourite mug in my collection.
Speaker 4:And still the only trophy favourite mug in my collection and still the only trophy. Yes, it also turns out that we probably could have done it like an interview live, because it turns out that they still live in Bristol and give each other lifts over to Cardiff, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Well, this is it. I know we could have got them down the beer factory.
Speaker 5:I was amazed how chilled Dan Thomas was, though. I mean literally, the camera went on and he just led on the bed.
Speaker 1:He was literally horizontal.
Speaker 5:Oh, it was brilliant, wasn't?
Speaker 4:it.
Speaker 5:Fair play to both of them. They really, I mean they are brilliant values.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely, you're absolutely right. I mean, they're such friendly chaps and thank you very much for them both for giving up their time on a Wednesday night. It was a bit of a struggle. We were after our kids, trying to keep them quiet and the else but massive respect. They were such bloody nice blokes and it was great to hear the insight, as fans have heard, into their times at Bristol and Cardiff and the reasons why they potentially didn't get picked and the changes in the teams.
Speaker 5:That was fascinating there was a lot of bones to pick over.
Speaker 1:I thought I'd like to think that I mean, it was quite a long interview. I'd like to think that you listeners out there will take your time and listen to some of it, and I think they were very balanced, they were very diplomatic.
Speaker 1:But I think there was some quite interesting bits of stuff in there, so I hope everyone enjoyed it. We certainly enjoyed doing it and I think we realized that actually it's something we can do. It is possible for us to all do it together. So, who knows, watch this space. There might be a few more come the future. So anyway, everyone, I hope you do enjoy it and we'd love to hear your comments on on those. But otherwise, stay safe, have a good week and come on, you bears.
